No. Now ask me why.

 

Don't HAVE to ask you why. Because it doesn't exist and you CAN'T cite it.

 

Wrong answer. Try again.

 

Umm.... could it be because I hurt your widdle feelings again when I referenced the "Sirius" debate? :roll:

Lighten up, Rev. For someone who likes to dish it out, you sure can't take it.

Now, back to the subject. Since, if you're right.... Uturn has given someone the wrong info on another thread.

According to "my interpretation" of what you said (which, if it was wrong, is the reason I asked for you to enlighten me)......

If on day one of 8, (midnight to midnight operation) a driver starts driving at 6 a.m. and works 12 hours, then at midnight of day 8, he would have to wait until 6 a.m. to start driving again.

I don't believe this is the case, and I respectfully request that you cite ANY regulation OR guidance that suggests you are right.

I'm not sure there even IS a reg that explains it, but I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere. And I KNOW that I was taught in school AND by my trainer, that you DO, in fact, get the whole "chunk" of your 1st day hours back at the BEGINNING of your 9th day. For most of us, that would be at midnight. (Of course, the 14 hour rule would still apply.)

 

I have no idea what you are talking about. Try again.

:?:

Nope. If the driver worked 12 hours a day for 8 days, he would be in violation of the 70 hour rule. But, let's assume that he didn't violate the 70 hour rule, and simply used less hours certain days (which is what I am assuming you meant). In that case, then it could be possible that he has to wait until 6:00 a.m. on day 9 to start driving again.

What you keep referring to, and what Dawn keeps referring to, is this "midnight to midnight" operation. It doesn't exist, other than on the recap (which isn't even required by the FMCSA). The only way a true "midnight to midnight" operation exists, is if you are on duty 14 hours a day, and off for 10 hours. Anything less than that isn't a midnight to midnight operation. You don't gain your hours back at midnight. You gain them back when your 10 hours off duty is satisfied.

The 60 and 70 hour rule is a completely different story. A true "midnight to midnight" operation would run out of hours in 5 days, forcing a 34 hour reset to continue operating. And even then, you wouldn't gain your 70 hours back at midnight - you'd gain them back when the 34 hour reset is complete.

And even then, the 60/70 rule doesn't have to begin or end at midnight. It can begin or end at any time of the day:

My "8 consecutive days" can begin as soon as I complete a 34 hour reset. It could be at ANY time of the day. Ultimately, the motor carrier (not the FMCSA) makes the decision as to when the 24 hour day starts:

As you can see, the motor carrier can decide when the 24 hour clock starts. It doesn't have to start at midnight.

 

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:07 pm by COASTIE

Dawn said:

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:16 pm



Rev.Vassago said:

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject:

The beginning of this thread dealt with the 34 hour restart. At the point that I referenced above, the discussion changed to how to gain hours back on your 70 to AVOID a 34 hour restart.

NOW you say:

YES! I ONLY referred to a random amount of hours worked on the 1st day.

We were not talking about when he could START driving again. We were discussing WHEN he regained his hours available again.... and I clearly stated later that the 11/14 hour rule still applied. I believe that even the original statement by Coastie was clear as to his intention, which was NOT to be able to just keep driving continuously, but rather to avoid a 34 hour restart.

It is PRECISELY the "recap" as YOU refer to it that we were discussing. ALL carriers are required to state their 24 hour duty period, and in this case, we were assuming a midnight to midnight duty cycle - used for logging purposes. The recap is NOT required to be written down.... but it is required to be considered for the purpose of getting hours back and not violating the 60/70 rule.

There is no requirement, and no one but you thinks there is, that a person work 14 hours a day and takes 10 off to be considered on a 24 hour midnight to midnight operation. It DOES in fact, refer ONLY to his RODS.

If your RODS are kept on a midnight to midnight basis, you most certainly DO regain the "chunk" of hours used during that same cycle 8 days back - AT MIDNIGHT. The fact that he is still on his 10 hour break is immaterial except that it means he cannot drive (as you say and so did I) until he has had the required break. But, he got his hours BACK at midnight. And they are the total number of hours driven between midnight and midnight on the 8th day back.

Let's say on that 1st day, he started at 6 p.m. and drove until 5 a.m. on the next day. At midnight on the 8th day, he would get back the 6 hours (only) that he drove prior to midnight the first day. By NOW.... he may be on a different schedule and completes his 10 hour break at midnight. He IMMEDIATELY gets those 6 hours back (subject to the 11/14 hour rule.) He does NOT have to wait or even GET to wait until sometime in the morning (or 6 p.m.) and then get all 11 hours back.

Obviously, if he hasn't completed his 10 hour break at midnight on the 8th day, he cannot DRIVE until he has. But, he got his 6 hours ONLY back at midnight. They are now available to use as soon as he is legal to drive again.

NO.... it is the story we were discussing at this point in the thread. Try to keep up! :wink:

Your definition of such is NOT what is referenced MANY times in the regs.

No one referred to getting all 70 back. We were talking about getting back the hours used on the FIRST of 8 days on your RODS.

This is possibly the only TRUE statement you've made on this topic. Too bad NO ONE was debating it.

Okay, second correct point. Which, if you'll read Dawn's original reply was the reason she SPECIFIED midnight as a given condition for the purpose of the discussion.

It is quite possible that you misunderstood a point or two in the discussion. I KNOW you know your stuff, which is why I was in such disbelief when you posted what you did. I hope somehow or another, I have clarified my and others' position for you.

No one said anything about getting your 70 back at midnight in conjunction with a 34 hour reset. If YOUR company works/logs on a midnight to midnight basis - as the daily grid is set up for - you get back the hours worked for THAT log sheet at midnight 8 days later. If you work on a 9 to 9 basis or something like that, you would get the hours worked during THAT 1st 24 hour period back at THAT respective time on day 9.

Are we ALL on the same page now?

 

Nope

 

Too bad. I think the REST of us are.

Dang your quick..... I JUST hit the submit button! :lol:

 

Nope. You and Dawn are in a completely different book. I think it is the HOS regulations for Kazakhstan or something.

Lightning quick, and dead on accurate.

Still waiting for your response HERE

 

Assuming a 24/7 operation using the 70 hour rule:

After a 34 hour reset, your 70 hours are totally gained back.

The exact time a "log day" (for want of a better term) starts at what ever time your carrier has its log books set up at.

A driver may gain some hours back using the "old" method of waiting for the 9th previous day to drop off. If the company uses a midnight to midnight log book then those hours come back at midnight. If they use a noon to noon log book then those hours come back at noon and so forth.

Now just because a driver has hours gained back does not mean they can immediately start running again. They still must be in compliance with the 11 and 14 hour rules.

The 34 hour restart is not a requirement per the FMCSA.

Also under the latest rules, you can be over your 70 and in violation and still gain your 70 back after the 34 hours. When the first revision came out you could not do this if you were in violation. Just because a driver is over his 70 does not mean a violation has occured. Same with being over on the 14. All the 14 and 70 hours rules state is that a person can not drive upon reaching those limits, the driver may continue to work.