I believe the highlighted part of your answer says "On Duty." That would include lines 3 and 4. This is obviously NOT referring to DRIVING time, as we both know that is only a total of 11 hours.

You simply MISSPOKE, Rev.... it happens to all of us at times. In fact, as I stated, your particular "misquote" has appeared in memos from numerous Safety Directors as I have noted. There is NO reg stating that the total "on duty" hours on either side of a break CANNOT EXCEED 14 hours!

What you MEANT to say was that the total DRIVING TIME HOURS on either side of any break cannot exceed 11 hours! And, BTW, must occur within the 14 hour window (extended in the case of the 8 hour S/B.)

 

Actually, it IS referring to driving time, which is what the O.P. was asking about. The 14 hour rule still applies when splitting the sleeper berth, so what I stated is CORRECT when applied to DRIVING TIME:

The on duty period before the 8 hour break, and the on duty period after the 8 hour break cannot equal more than 14 hours when added together, though.


There is, when in relation to driving time, which is what the 14 hour rule applies to. :roll:

Actually, I DID say that, several times. :roll:

Which is what I also said.

You are trying to claim that the 14 hour rule applies to something OTHER THAN DRIVING, which it doesn't. Either that, or you are trying to claim that I said the 14 hour rule applies to ON DUTY (not driving) time, which I didn't.

I'll type it again, real slowly for you: The 14 hour rule does not apply to ANYTHING other than driving time.

 

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding of this agrees with what Rev.Vassago said. If you have an 8 hour break, then a 2 hour break, your 11 or 14 must be calculated starting from the end of the 8 hour break, because "compliance must be re-calculated from the end of the first of the two periods", which is the end of the 8 hour break. Or, in other words, the sum of driving time on both sides of the 2 hour break cannot exceed 11 hours.[/quote]

You are correct, mr. NON lawyer.... but let's not forget that one can ALSO take the 2 hour break FIRST.... and therefore the NEW clock can be calculated from the end of a two hour break (once the 8 hour break is taken.) In fact, as the split option continiues to "roll" the 14 hour clock will alternate from the end of an 8 hour break to the end of a 2 hour break and back again.

Not that ANYTHING YOU SAID WAS WRONG.... but just wanting to clarify for the hard of hearing, that the 14 hour clock resets to the end of the FIRST of ANY two breaks that equal 10 hours. One time this will be the 8 hour break, the next time it will be the 2 hour break, and so on....

Many don't seem to realize that a two hour break used to "complete" the split, can and IS used again to "begin" the next "split."

SOME believe that if the 2 hour break is the second one, it completes the requirement and the clocks are reset to 11/14. OTHERS believe that once used to complete the split, the last (2 hour break in this instance) can't be used AGAIN, and the clocks must be calculated from the end of the following 8 hour break. EACH break is used TWICE in the calculation.

A 2 hour break that was the second taken, becomes the FIRST of the two breaks used to calculate ONCE THE 8 hour break is taken AGAIN. That is what is meant by a "rolling" reset.

 

Rev: You can type it again, you can type it in RED, and you can type it as slow as you WANT TO or NEED to!

The fact is you are referring to the 14 hour WINDOW, not "ON DUTY TIME."

I see where our disconnect is.... you are referring to the "14 hour On Duty TIME (should be WINDOW) and I am quoting your words of ON DUTY TIME. The latter.... per the regs.... refers to lines 3 and 4. The FORMER (YOUR WORDS) were the ones used by the fmcsa before they updated their website.

You said: You consider this the "on duty WINDOW" within which one can drive. I am using the fmcsa definition of "on duty period" to include line 4.

One can be "ON DUTY" on line 4 for as long as necessary. One can only drive 11 hours during an "on duty WINDOW" of 14 hours after coming on duty.... blah, blah.....

NO... you didn't. You ONLY refered to 11 hours in a LATER post. Originally, you said 14 hours. Which is "misleading" because that refers to a DUTY TIME that exceeds the allowable DRIVING TIME.... and is NOT the "TOTAL" number of hours that can be accumulated on either side (combined) of a break.

I have not only heard Safety directors misquote this, I have seen them drag "examples" of log pages into their memos and SHOW their drivers that they MUST take a break after 14 total hours on duty on either side of the break. This is simply NOT true, and could cause drivers to shut down, or "fail" loads, because they think they cannot WORK more than 14 hours at one time.

YOU specifically said, in your SECOND response (I believe) that once one accumulated a total of 11 hours driving time (split over the break,) that they had to STOP AND TAKE 10 HOURS BREAK! True that they had to stop DRIVING!..... NOT TRUE that they had to "immediately" take a 10 hour break! RE-READ your first couple of posts!

AS I said, Rev.... we ALL mispeak or misquote at times. YOU "edited" your recent post 3 TIMES before I got a chance to read it! "I" edited my last one to correct a mistake I made concerning the second break! [ AND NOW, I've had to edit THIS post to clarify what you said and WHEN! :lol: ] This stuff gets confusing!! It is difficult for ANY of us to explain it well to newbies without leaving something out, or misstating something.

With your years of experience, you may THINK you are stating something clearly. With my fresher perspective, I see things that would confuse a newbie! It might serve you well to LISTEN to me at times, instead of just argueing! Unless of course, you just like the battle.... in which case.... BRING IT ON!!! :lol:

 

Yes, I was. That is what the 14 hour rule is - a WINDOW that the 11 hours of driving must be completed in.

You are taking me out of context.

And that is correct, when the 14 hour rule is applied to what it is intended to - DRIVING.

That is right, and that is where you are wrong.

The 14 hour rule only applies to driving. Sure - you can be on duty after the 14th hour, but that is irrelevant, as the 14 hour rule applies ONLY to driving.

Better check again:

That is right up at the beginning of this thread. Now, if you have trouble adding 5 and 6 together, then there is a remedial math course waiting for you. :lol:

Apparently you still want to apply the 14 hour rule to something that it does not apply to - on duty time outside of driving time.

Once again, the Original Poster was not asking about ON DUTY time outside of driving - they were asking about DRIVING. I was giving them the rules as they relate to DRIVING. Just because you want to pretend that I was talking about ON DUTY time, doesn't change this fact.

Sucks to be you. I fixed a misspelling, and my computer froze up.

There is a tinfoil hat in your future.

Everyone else understood except for you.

 

Whatever!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:

BTW.... KEEP the avatar! It FITS you! :lol: :lol:

And it excites Useless! :shock: :lol:

And when you reach 11 hours total driving time, combined around a break, please DO shut down and take your 10 hour break! That way I can pull into the shipper and get ahead of you (and the newbies who listened to you!)

Because the "total on duty time on either side of a break, combined," doesn't HAVE to total no more than 14 hours for ME! :lol:

Hobo

 

Now you are mixing regulations - once you reach 11 hours driving time, combined around a split sleeper berth, you have to shut down for the amount of time that the first period of the split sleeper berth consisted of.

And DOT can hand you a citation when you do.

It does if you want to keep driving. :roll:

Hobo[/quote]

 

Okay, REV: I tried to "let it go," but you wouldn't do the same (and continue to make the same mistake!) So here we go again! :lol: I'll start with your latest, and then re-create the original arguement.


NOW... for the original facts:


Rev's FIRST post: Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: Hours of Service

Gibb wrote:

I have been told by a few drivers that you can split your sleeper berth still? I have always thought that once your 14 hour clock starts nothing can extend it except a 10 hour break 8 hours sleeper and 2 hours off duty before or after your sleeper time. Can someone clarify this for me.

NO... IT DOESN"T have to equal ONLY 14 hours! ON DUTY time is defined - BY FMCSA - as lines 3 AND 4!!

------------------------

jmilici's FIRST post: Hey rev, I thought you have a fresh day after that 2 hour break when splitting? From what you are saying you can only drive for as long as you drove for your first on duty driving then? Before you took you 8 hour?

If that is the case then I must give myself a big OOPS!!!

please let me know, so I do not do it in the future.

Obviously, jmilici learned something from the Rev's post. And I subsequently confirmed it for him. (which the Rev made a BIG LETTER DEAL out of! :lol: )

-----------------

Rev's SECOND post / response to jmilici:

Again, you insist that you MUST STOP and take a break when the driving time equalls 11 hours! That is NOT TRUE! The fact that you say the 14 hour rule ALSO applies, shows that they are not interchangeable nor totally interdependant!

--------------

Dawn's reply to the Rev:

Dawn ALSO "correctly" picked up on your misquote about the fact that you have to STOP and TAKE A BREAK after 11 hours of DRIVING TIME which is WHAT YOU SAID!

I KNOW you are "correctly" stating 11 hours of DRIVING TIME, but you are saying 2 things incorrectly.

1) That you must stop and take a 10 hour (or partial) break at THAT PRECISE moment.... and

2) That the TOTAL "on duty time" on either side of a break cannot exceed 14 hours!

BOTH statements are WRONG.... and misleading! Regardless of what you MEANT by them!


================

Rev's THIRD post:

-----------------

Rev's 4th post:

 

ON DUTY (not driving), and ON DUTY (driving) are two completely different things. Everyone else in this thread other than you and Dawn were talking about ON DUTY (driving). Perhaps when the two of you can get onto the same page as everyone else, we can have a discussion about this again.

And everything I stated holds true to ON DUTY (driving), which is what we were all discussing before you stuck your nose in here. It's a shame that you are too thick-headed to understand this. :roll:

 

Maybe Golfhobo and Dawn could start their own log and safety consulting company. The could call it " Blind Leading the Blind Consulting Inc. "

But first Golfhobo needs to teach Dawn the ENGRISH language.