hey golfhobo

sorry about that, should have reread before hit the send key ops:

 

I'm guessing that his company is using the "old" rules (not to be confused with the "old, old rules". It used to be that you had to get yourself back into compliance with the 60/70 rule before you could take a 34 hour reset. The new rules did away with this, and for good reason.

 

Hey Rev

I would agree with you as our company uses a computer program to audit our logs and I found out with one of mine that when i work over the 70 hours but didn't drive past the 70 hours it put me into log violations for the first part of the next week. I will be happy when they get the program updated to reflect the new rules

 

You would think that they would, considering how long the "new, new" rules have been in place.


I find it easier to just work as little as possible, and not even think about the 60/70 hour rule. :lol:

 

The keller program does not recognize you being over the 70 hour if you are on-duty not driving. There must be an adding error on lines 3 & 4 for the last 7 days up to the 8Th day. Check your math for the past 7 days on line 3 & 4 and re-do the recap. Many auditors will not explain what you did wrong, but would rather jump on assumption of what you did wrong. Check your logs and make sure you added right, this is a very common mistake that causes a driver to go over their 70 hours. If they are on JJ Keller they have updated their systems unfortunately, not an upgrade, but a down degrade!

Good clue to you making a math error is, if you was running right on the hours available. So your recap showed you had 8 hours available and you ran 7.5 or 8. Then you probably made a math error or you carried your hours over incorrectly. Just suggesting maybe you should check this out as many auditors have no clue in how to explain to drivers what they did wrong. E-mail me the last 7 days plus the day you was in violation and I can tell ya what you did wrong or if it was the computer. It could very well be the Log Auditor has a key in error and did not want to tell you.

 

Hmm.... I don't know Rev.... how far back are we going? It "used to be" that there was no such thing as a 34 hour reset! So, I don't know how some "log program" using the "old, old rules" could MAKE such an error! [Actually, before you jump all over me.... I know what you mean. Apparently, lots of people jumped in with computer programs between the 2003 rules and the 2005 rules.]

Anyway... my point is.... QUIT USING COMPUTER PROGRAMS to tell you when you are in compliance or not! DO THE MATH! LEARN THE REGS. Do your own logbooks!

I haven't MET or heard of a "safety" person YET, who understood the regs properly! I don't CARE what the OLD rules were..... this is TODAY. If a driver doesn't understand what will or will not cost him money on his logbook, he needs to pull over and park his rig until he DOES!

If J.J. Kellar AND my safety director told me that ANY violation "negated" my 34 hour restart.... I'd have BOTH their jobs in a minute! By that, I mean I'd have them FIRED!

I don't mean to be "getting on" you, Rev, for your response.... it's just the total assininity of the situation where someone can "violate" or "charge" you for doing something wrong, when THEY don't know their butts from a hole in the ground!! :shock: :twisted:

And then get a "pass" for it, because their computer programs aren't up to date! Sheesh! What happened to people doing their OWN thinking???

 

If you know what I mean, then why argue it? :roll:

 

The real problem is the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration. They have created the biggest mess I think in a long time. There is NO reason the HOS has to be this hard.

I've said it before and will continue to say it -- The HOS of service can be written in two sentences. (1) You can be ON DUTY "X" hours in a 24 hour period. (2) After "X" hours you must take "X" hours off per week. There would be 2 lines in the logbook. ON-DUTY and OFF-DUTY. None of this BS of SLEEPER and/or ON-DUTY-NOT DRIVING. Your either working or your not.

I'll leave it the them to decide what the "X" times are. If I was writing the regs I put it at 10 hours per day and require 48 hours off per week.

This bull of writing HOS in such a way to favor companies is crap.

As to using a computer. I see nothing wrong with using a computer. I can assure you no one fully understands the HOS. Some know more than others but know one has a complete understanding. In addition as soon as someone gets a grasp on the HOS they change.

The big advantage of using a computer it over doing to by hand is the better chance of checking the math. It was shown by the IRS study a couple of years ago the single cause of IRS audits was cause by simple math errors.

kc0iv

 

Hey Dawn:

No math error. We run 60 hour logs (Don't know why but we do) my driving time ended at the 59 hour and then i did work in the warehouse/dispatch area as we were sort handed. This was on a Friday and no violations were on the print out for Friday. Had Sat. & Sun off. The violations were for Mon, Tue, Wed. The computer program they use to audit our logs is using the 2003 rules instead of the 2005 rules.

Hey golfhobo:

I agree with you about learning the rule and do your log books with out using the computer. We fill out paper logs and turn them in with our time sheets. I know the reg and have learned them and have never been cited for a log book violation from dot (20yrs of driving).
It would be nice to get the safety person fired for being wrong but it is hard to fire him since he is one of the owners. :roll: They depend on the computer program to check our logs to make sure we are in compliance. I don't have a problem with this if they would update it.

 

I agree!

I can see your point, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I might agree that a computer program for CHECKING your math could be useful. But, using one to fill out your logs, and letting IT decide when you are in violation, is dangerous. Computers make mistakes, or are NOT updated properly.

I contend that it should be a "requirement" that every driver understands the basic HOS rules, AND can manipulate a few figures within a 24 hour clock, to fill out his own logs.

Remember the movie "Wargames?" I'm just saying that I don't want a computer taking over the responsibility of logging my day, or "charging" me with a violation.

Any person computer literate enough to use a DDL type program, ought to be able to count to 14. And anyone who CAN'T count to 14, probably can't or shouldn't be using a computer to record his ROD's.

I'm NOT putting down anyone who is having problems with the HOS. I am here to help them. I just don't think that the resolution to the problem is to let a computer do your thinking for you.