Gman, I said long ago in my thread about the 2nd Amendment, that I am open to reasonable debate and am always studying the constitutionality of it.

I never actually said I didn't think guns should be allowed on school property. And, I am only "entertaining" and discussing it now.

As the article states, apparently UTAH has proven (and other states are considering) their state laws. So... the federal law does not necessarily trump the 10th Amendment here.

Your depiction of a mass of angry kids IS interesting... but, I still think I am against THAT idea. However... unlike some on the right.... I am willing to consider all alternatives.

I am still reading and digesting the original poster's article. I will have more to say when I get back with more beer.

 

Perhaps you should look at Texas for an answer. They allow teachers and administrators to be armed and they have not had the problems as in Connecticut. One thing we know for sure that doesn't work is more gun control. Just look at Chicago, New York City and Boston. Since extreme gun control hasn't worked, perhaps it is time to look at a different solution.

 

GMAN said:

I will take a look at it, but I'm not sure you can compare Texas to CT.

I'm not sure we CAN say that we know that for sure. I don't know about Boston... but, using Chicago and New York City does not make for a fair comparison. You are talking about two cities with the highest poverty rates. How you you KNOW that the crime stats wouldn't be HIGHER there without strict gun control laws?

Maybe repete and IronEagle can provide some input but.... has there been such mass shootings in those cities? If not, could it be that the stricter laws help prevent them? If so... can you say that there shouldn't have been MORE based on population levels?

Again... you can't prove a negative. No way to know that gun control hasn't prevented MORE mass murders. And for the purpose of the current discussions here on CAD... I don't think we can equate individual crime stats / murder rates with these mass shootings. Not that I don't CARE about individual murder stats, but... I think most Americans are actually more concerned with stopping these mass shootings... especially in schools.

But, I am ALL for considering any and all other solutions as well. Just wish the NRA would be willing to put some skin in the game. I am seriously trying to be open minded and look for a solution and/or compromise. But... it's kinda like the fiscal cliff / taxes thing. If ONE side wants "all or nothing" then how can we find common ground?

 

MichiganDriver said:

I agree with you on this aspect. I call it the "Dodge City" paradygm. [Or the "Wild West" mentality.] I think repete mentioned a "free for all." That is exactly what I fear if there are NO controls on guns. I just simply refuse to believe that the best answer is for everyone to Strap Up.

I tend to believe that Mr. Correia (from the original article) is attempting to do just that. I could do with a little less snarky condescension on his part, and I disagree with SOME of his conclusions and assertions, but... I am willing to stipulate as to his background and knowledge.

Rather than outlawing them, since they ARE effective in stopping such massacres, why not suggest that they be a bit more closely "regulated" as to who can own them? Perhaps, we could convince some of the more law-abiding citizens like those here on CAD to meet us halfway by improving the system of "licensing and training" ... closing the gun show loophole... and "asking them nicely" (forcing them) to show up for "drills" once per quarter as the original Militia clause of the 2nd intended? Make it a condition of ownership, and "regulate" them as a civilian defense force with "battle plans" and organizational oversight with the intent of having quicker response times and backup for the police force.

I would like to see a Win-Win solution, too. And, at the risk of you going all "Sharlie" on me... I think you're giving up and taking a defeatist attitude.

And if we could convince them that they serve a purpose, and are "welcomed" by those of us who care about gun violence... and that the 2nd Amendment is inviolable... perhaps, we could "neuter" the Rush Limbaughs of the world.

 

How about if I get my buddy Obama to give you a tax deduction for ALL license fees, (including CCW) for EVERY year you hold the license (even if you only pay it ONCE,) and for any and all safety courses you take? Sorry... not going to let you deduct the cost of your guns or ammo... but... we'll "double" the deduction for all sales taxes on them.

I know... you don't like, and FEAR, the idea of the government knowing what guns you have... but.... that IS consistent with the MILITIA "proviso" of the 2nd Amendment! Our forefathers had NO PROBLEM with the idea! Nothing in the 2nd can be construed to mean that our forefathers wanted "unregulated" (unfettered) ownership of guns! They were "mandated" under the Militia Act of 1792 (have you ever actually READ it?) and I believe would have been compensated with a tax deduction.... IF we'd had taxes back then!

IF I concede that the "militia clause" of the 2nd doesn't apply ONLY to what we now call the National Guard... would you be willing to accept the "personal and national responsibility" that was intended by the words "a WELL regulated militia?"

Isn't this a way to ensure that crazies don't own guns? [At least not ones with firing pins?] LOL!

These are just thoughts. Nothing set in stone or a DEMAND from the "left." I'm seriously looking for a solution... even if only for my own conscience.

Like MD, I just can't believe that the only answer is total de-regulation. It has NEVER worked in any other area or industry in our country.

 

here i am in New Zealand just gone out and got two red deer for the freezer and u jokers still arguing ,sorry could be wrong way to answer thread

 

What kind of rifle did you use?

 

223 ruger mini 14

 

Congratulations Mitch!
mmmmmmm-venison....

 

The incident in Connecticut has gained national attention due to the number of children that were killed at one time. What about the 448+ children that have been murdered in Chicago this year? Are they being forgotten because they are mostly black? Is it because of racism by the extreme left Chicago politicians and liberal media? What happened to those children was terrible. I have never thought that we have a gun problem. We have had guns for centuries. We have a morality problem. We think nothing about murdering 35+ million unborn babies, but are willing to destroy the constitution because 20 children were murdered with a gun. The only difference is that the unborn are ripped apart by a doctor and the 20 are killed with a gun. I think that this country needs a spiritual revival. We need to remember what made this country great. It was GOD that has been the center of this country until a few decades ago, when people began to turn away from GOD. Some may scoff at that statement, but if you look back at history, our country began to decline when we began to take GOD out of our schools and out of our country. I don't think that it is a coincidence.