[Goin Fer It]

Originally Posted by greg3564

We already do. It's called the United Nations. We're all in a heap of trouble if a Democrat wins the Presidential Elections. Those Dems just love the UN. I'll give the Republicans this much, they know when to tell the UN to shove it. The UN is the most ineffective organization there is. How many of their "peacekeeping" and "humanitarian" missions fail miserably each year? The UN should be moved to to Europe where those lackeys will follow whatever the UN tells them to do.

OK, rant over!

Greg I have never voted democrat in my life but I believe that President Bush has moved this summit process along quicker than even Bill Clinton did. He has agreed to all of the mandates and passed things such as the Patriot Act and achieved Homeland Security things that Clinton attempted but could not get through. We are in UNESCO and that is the UN. Most of the Summit Mandates lead back to control of agencies or documents under the UN.

I believe in issues not whether there is a D or an R behind a name. I will never support anyone who is for the Summit of the Americas and the mandates that both Bush and Clinton have agreed to.

Goin Fer It's Wife

[Goin Fer It]

This is from Representative Ron Paul's Web Page regarding the real ID act this has passed and is scheduled to go into effect May 2008. 34 states are now fighting it. The bill is HR 418

At the end of this article I will also put a link to his speech BEFORE THE US HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2005/tst021405.htm

Ron Paul's Texas Straight Talk - A weekly Column

The National ID Trojan Horse

February 14, 2005

The U.S. House of Representatives passed a national ID bill last week that masqueraded as “immigration reform.” The bill does nothing to address immigration policy, however, nor does it propose deporting a single illegal alien already in our country. It does nothing to address the porous border between the U.S. and Mexico, which is the fundamental problem. In reality, the bill is a Trojan horse. It pretends to offer desperately needed border control in order to con a credulous Congress into sacrificing more of our constitutionally protected liberty.

Supporters claim the national ID scheme is voluntary. However, any state that opts out will automatically make non-persons out of its citizens. The citizens of that state will be unable to have any dealings with the federal government because their ID will not be accepted. They will not be able to fly or to take a train. In essence, in the eyes of the federal government they will cease to exist. It is absurd to call this voluntary, and the proponents of the national ID know that every state will have no choice but to comply. Federal legislation that nationalizes standards for drivers’ licenses and birth certificates creates a national ID system pure and simple.

It is just a matter of time until those who refuse to carry the new licenses will be denied the ability to drive or board an airplane. Such domestic travel restrictions are the hallmark of authoritarian states, not free republics.

This bill establishes a huge, centrally-coordinated database of highly personal information about American citizens: at a minimum their name, date of birth, place of residence, Social Security number, and physical and possibly other characteristics. The bill even provides for this sensitive information of American citizens to be shared with Canada and Mexico! Imagine a corrupt Mexican official selling thousands of identity files, including Social Security numbers, to criminals!

This legislation gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to expand required information on drivers’ licenses, potentially including such biometric information as retina scans, finger prints, DNA information, and even Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) radio tracking technology. Including such technology as RFID means the federal government, as well as the governments of Canada and Mexico, could know where American citizens are at all times.

What will this mean for us? When this new program is implemented, every time we are required to show our drivers’ license we will, in fact, be showing a national identification card. We will be handing over a card that includes our personal and likely biometric information, information which is connected to a national and international database. This will further degrade our precious privacy, which is the hallmark of a civilized society. As Ayn Rand said, the “Savage’s whole existence is public.”

A national ID card will have the same effect as gun control laws: criminals will ignore it, while law abiding people lose freedom. A national ID card offers us nothing more than a false sense of security, while moving us ever closer to a police state. The national ID proposal should die a well-deserved death in the Senate, and it should be denounced as authoritarian and anti-American.

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/co...5/cr020905.htm

Goin Fer It's Wife

[PackRatTDI]

Time to invest heavily in Alcoa worldwide.

[Goin Fer It]

Originally Posted by PackRatTDI

Time to invest heavily in Alcoa worldwide.

So PackRat what do you disagree with? Did you do a search on the HR bill?
While I have not as of yet read the actual text of the bill which I will sometime this week I do know that it is not a good thing.

Or do you not believe that Haliburton was awarded $385 million dollars to put up these camps. If you are having difficulty with this I may be able to find the actual government bids on those contracts.

Please specify what you are not grasping.

Goin Fer It's Wife

[greg3564]

This nation is going down the sh***er. Fast! It's amazing how quickly we have become so afraid since 9/11. The people in DC are just screwing us left and right.

I hope that with future elections we can balance out the power struggle between Dems and Reps. Jeez, I never thought I'd never say that in my lifetime. Being a conservative Republican, and always voting as such, I thought it was great when Bush was elected with both houses in Rep command. I'm amazed that a party that USED to pride itself on small government and states' rights has gone the complete other direction.

Where did it all go wrong? Bush supposedly idolizes Reagan, but he in NO way presumes to be remotely like Reagan. What this country needs is a unifying leader like Reagan to heal this country. But sadly, I don't see one on the horizon riding to our rescue. :sad:

[Fozzy]

This is more of the "want their cake and want to eat it too" behavior. They want instant recognition of "illegals" which impossible yet they want no instant recognition of their own status as Americans. The ONLY way to do this is through either a chip in your skull or at the least a national ID card. The one sure thing that haunts most of these "discussions", is the fact that most of the people ranting and raving at the big government machine can only use the "he looks like an illegal" concept of tossing someone out of the country. We locked up thousands of AMERICAN citizens before because these AMERICANS looked like those same people in Japan. Same mindset, different decade. ONLY if you are willing to allow the government TOTAL control over your life to have a chance of catching "a few" mexican illegals, your just blowing hot air!

[PackRatTDI]

Originally Posted by Goin Fer It

While I have not as of yet read the actual text of the bill which I will sometime this week I do know that it is not a good thing.

You remind me of those parents who rallied against their children reading "Farenheit 451" as a school project because they had heard that they burned the bible in the book, not that they had actually READ the book to know that all books were burned.

I ain't seen it, I aint read it, but I knows I don't likes it. :lol:

[sweepwing]

Perhaps Fozzy and PackRat can explain exactly how the following will help make the US a better nation and preserve our traditional rights and freedoms under the Constitution.

Amnesty for incalculable millions of criminal aliens who have no loyalty to this nation and refuse to assimilate into the American culture

The Patriot Act

The Military Commissions Act

The Security and Prosperity Partnership

The prosecution of Border Agents Compean and Ramos

Sneak and peek warrantless searches

Detention without due process or councel or access to evidence used against you

Secret trials performed by anonymous judges

The sale of our public infrastructure (ports, highways, airports) to foreign entities including the Chinese military

Please explain to us just exactly why each of these things are good. References to aluminum can only take you so far, show us what you've got. I know that neither of you can defend your wimpy attacks, but this is your big chance to show hundreds, if not thousands of us, just how dangerously ignorant you two are of the grim realities of what this nation faces. Step up or forever be known as cowards.

[Twilight Flyer]

Just a reminder to keep the discussion civil. Namecalling isn't needed, nor will it be tolerated. If I shut it down again, I won't reopen it. Thanks.

[Fozzy]

Perhaps Fozzy and PackRat can explain exactly how the following will help make the US a better nation and preserve our traditional rights and freedoms under the Constitution.

This is where again, the cake is wanted to be eaten too. You speak of the constitution and traditional rights, yet explain how any government agency can both never intrude in anyone's "civil rights" yet be able to find 15 million or so illegal aliens???

Amnesty for incalculable millions of criminal aliens who have no loyalty to this nation and refuse to assimilate into the American culture

Is this a statement or a question? There are so many "Americans" fighting to be come "hyphenated" that the whole assimilation issue is a joke!

The Patriot Act

The Military Commissions Act

The Security and Prosperity Partnership

What about them? If we are going to secure the borders and detect, round up and deport millions of people, we are going to have to intrude in people's lives...

The prosecution of Border Agents Compean and Ramos

What about it?

Sneak and peek warrantless searches

On?

Detention without due process or councel or access to evidence used against you

Isn't this what the "sky is falling" types claim to want when it comes to "Latinos"

Secret trials performed by anonymous judges

Name one that has taken place.. in fact name anything that the leftists and terror supporters HAVE kept secret? As of the last 8 or so year, the willing political bigots and Bush haters in all sizes and flavors have been a great intel source for any and all enemies of the US.

The sale of our public infrastructure (ports, highways, airports) to foreign entities including the Chinese military

This is nothing new and it's really more proof that the whole thing is about the politicians wanting to give goodies in the way of cash money to their constituents and the constituents usually are pretty good at looking the other way. Most of the deals and the reactions are purely political, based on bigotry or overall ignorance.

Please explain to us just exactly why each of these things are good. References to aluminum can only take you so far, show us what you've got. I know that neither of you can defend your wimpy attacks, but this is your big chance to show hundreds, if not thousands of us, just how dangerously ignorant you two are of the grim realities of what this nation faces. Step up or forever be known as cowards.

I guess I should have read this post backwards. this is another tin foil wearer who's got too much time to listen to AM radio. Cowards indeed. You point out what YOUR big plan is. and just how you would take the steps to do both (clean out and secure America) without initiating even more draconian measures than the acts that you mention. Also these acts are still tepid when compared to the FDR days. Be careful for what you wish for... :roll: