[geeshock]

Originally Posted by Useless

The Bible is a largely fictional tome with some elements of truth. While there are certain elements which can be supported through the sciences, there were no talking snakes, talking / burning bushes, or talking donkeys.
While it does have some truth to certain parts of it, and while there are some things to be gained from studying it, it was largely co-opted by man for the purpose of empowering the few to reign and rule over the masses.

Remember, just becuse you have never seen it or proved it, doesn't provide proof positive it doesn't exist. Just meens you haven't proved it yet.

[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by Useless

The Bible is a largely fictional tome with some elements of truth. While there are certain elements which can be supported through the sciences, there were no talking snakes, talking / burning bushes, or talking donkeys.
While it does have some truth to certain parts of it, and while there are some things to be gained from studying it, it was largely co-opted by man for the purpose of empowering the few to reign and rule over the masses.

It would be far more accurate if we had not written the wrong means into it, and made so many mistakes in translation from one language and civilization to the next. In some cases, the original text and meaning has, perhaps, been lost forever. It means it is not as accurate as the original text, but it is not wrong. What we read into it is the biggest flaw in it. Going back in time, there are many things that have been confirmed by science. And, it corrects the "time frame" and meanings.

[Slimland]

I know this is an old thread, but like Twilight said at one time, it is a good time to resurrect it... though that was paraphrased..

I was reading through this whole peace and something came to mind that I had read along time ago, and it just dawned on me. I may be wrong but lets see what y'all think on it... In verse 4 "4 For Gaza shall be forsaken,"
I wonder if I am correct didn't Israel give up GAZA?

After these passages Will be a post on GAZA from April the 4th

Zephaniah 2
A Call to Repentance
1 Gather yourselves together, yes, gather together,
O undesirable nation,
2 Before the decree is issued,
Or the day passes like chaff,
Before the LORD’s fierce anger comes upon you,
Before the day of the LORD’s anger comes upon you!
3 Seek the LORD, all you meek of the earth,
Who have upheld His justice.
Seek righteousness, seek humility.
It may be that you will be hidden
In the day of the LORD’s anger.
Judgment on Nations
4 For Gaza shall be forsaken,
And Ashkelon desolate;
They shall drive out Ashdod at noonday,
And Ekron shall be uprooted.
5 Woe to the inhabitants of the seacoast,
The nation of the Cherethites!
The word of the LORD is against you,
O Canaan, land of the Philistines:

“ I will destroy you;
So there shall be no inhabitant.”
6 The seacoast shall be pastures,
With shelters for shepherds and folds for flocks.
7 The coast shall be for the remnant of the house of Judah;
They shall feed their flocks there;
In the houses of Ashkelon they shall lie down at evening.
For the LORD their God will intervene for them,
And return their captives.
8 “ I have heard the reproach of Moab,
And the insults of the people of Ammon,
With which they have reproached My people,
And made arrogant threats against their borders.
9 Therefore, as I live,”
Says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel,

“ Surely Moab shall be like Sodom,
And the people of Ammon like Gomorrah—
Overrun with weeds and saltpits,
And a perpetual desolation.
The residue of My people shall plunder them,
And the remnant of My people shall possess them.”
10 This they shall have for their pride,
Because they have reproached and made arrogant threats
Against the people of the LORD of hosts.
11 The LORD will be awesome to them,
For He will reduce to nothing all the gods of the earth;
People shall worship Him,
Each one from his place,
Indeed all the shores of the nations.
12 “ You Ethiopians also,
You shall be slain by My sword.”
13 And He will stretch out His hand against the north,
Destroy Assyria,
And make Nineveh a desolation,
As dry as the wilderness.
14 The herds shall lie down in her midst,
Every beast of the nation.
Both the pelican and the bittern
Shall lodge on the capitals of her pillars;
Their voice shall sing in the windows;
Desolation shall be at the threshold;
For He will lay bare the cedar work.
15 This is the rejoicing city
That dwelt securely,
That said in her heart,

“ I am it, and there is none besides me.”
How has she become a desolation,
A place for beasts to lie down!
Everyone who passes by her
Shall hiss and shake his fist.



The Post

Gaza Strip

Updated: April 4, 2011

OVERVIEW

The Gaza Strip lies along the Mediterranean coast between Israel and Egypt. Gaza is roughly twice the size of Washington, D.C., but its population is considerably more than twice as large, giving it one of the highest densities in the world. The majority of its approximately 1.4 million residents are Palestinian refugees, many of whom have been living in refugee camps for decades; 80 percent were estimated to be living in poverty in mid-2007, a figure that has doubtless grown.

Gaza has remained largely isolated from the international community since it came under the control of the Palestinaian political faction Hamas, which has refused to accept the conditions set by the so-called quartet of Middle East peacemakers, including renouncing violence, recognizing Israel's right to exist and accepting previous signed agreements between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization. In 2006, Hamas swept parliamentary elections in Gaza. Israel and Egypt imposed a strict economic embargo on the area, allowing in only basic supplies.

In December 2008, Hamas stepped up its firing of rockets and mortars into Israeli border towns, and Israel responded with a devastating air and ground campaign that left as many as 1,400 Palestinians dead by the time a cease-fire was unilaterally declared by both sides on Jan. 18, 2009. Much of the region's civil infrastructure and many homes were left in ruins during the three-week offensive that ended in January 2009. Thirteen Israelis were also killed.

A panel authorized in 2009 by the United Nations Human Rights Council to investigate Israel's actions said in its report that the destruction of civilian infrastructure in Gaza and the deaths of hundreds of noncombatants could only be understood as intentional. But in April 2011, the leader of the panel retracted the central and most explosive assertion of its report — that Israel intentionally killed Palestinian civilians there.

Two years after the war, Gaza is slowly mending but remains deeply troubled. Israel hoped that the blockade would break Hamas. Instead, Hamas is fully in charge, Israel is frustrated and another confrontation seems possible.

Gaza’s shops are full of Israeli food and clothes but most people can barely afford them. Construction projects — sewage treatment plants, schools — are getting started but far fewer than needed. The border with Egypt, once sealed, is open but few people cross because security clearance is hard to get. And rockets and mortar shells fly daily into Israel, as Israeli troops carry out brief raids.

Gazans still cannot cross into Israel. And the economy remains idle. A private sector that once employed 125,000 has barely 10,000 workers.



Now I dunno about Ashkelon or Ashdod since I just woke up for no reason and it is 2:40AM, I didn't feel like looking up that news.. But this thought had hit me when browsing through this thread..

[GMAN]

I never thought that I would see this nation turn it's back on Israel. The last few years we have witnesses the most unusual and extreme weather than I can recall during my lifetime. Major earthquakes, severe snow storms, record setting floods and a torrent of tornado's. I only remember one tornado what has hit my city during my life. A week or so ago, we saw perhaps as many as a dozen that hit within about a 45 mile radius. The interesting aspect of all these tornado's is that although there was considerable property damage, little life was lost compared to the damage. We now have locusts that have come to my area. We have wars and rumors of wars across the globe. The Middle East has been turned upside down with the people taking the lead for change in their countries. The United States has become almost bankrupt to to corruption and out of control spending. America is the strongest empire that has ever existed on this planet and is on the verge of collapse. All of these events were written about in the Revelations. I believe that we are in the final days leading up to the second coming of Christ and the rapture. The clock started ticking when Israel once again became a state in 1948. We have not fully understood what was meant when the Bible told us that "This generation will not pass" before Christ returns. I have thought that a generation was 20 years or so. I have since thought that in this context, the Bible is referring to the "Baby Boomers." The generation that was born after WWII is referred to as "Baby Boomers." I believe that Christ will return during my lifetime or that of my fellow baby boomers. I have heard some Biblical scholars suggest that the second coming will occur in 2012. Some have speculated between 2012 and 2018. According to the Bible we will not know the exact hour or day. We are given signs to look for so that we can prepare but will not know the exact time. These are interesting times in which to live. We are seeing great changes taking place throughout the world. I would not have expected this country would be so willing to turn to socialism. I expected this country to forever embrace democracy or a representative republic form of government. There are millions of our fellow citizens who seem to be encouraging a reliance on government rather than themselves and God. Perhaps it is really the turning away from God that has turned them toward government to fill the void. Government has become the God that fills all their needs. It is unbelievable the changes that I have seen during my time on this planet.

[Slimland]

Originally Posted by GMAN

I never thought that I would see this nation turn it's back on Israel. The last few years we have witnesses the most unusual and extreme weather than I can recall during my lifetime. Major earthquakes, severe snow storms, record setting floods and a torrent of tornado's. I only remember one tornado what has hit my city during my life. A week or so ago, we saw perhaps as many as a dozen that hit within about a 45 mile radius. The interesting aspect of all these tornado's is that although there was considerable property damage, little life was lost compared to the damage. We now have locusts that have come to my area. We have wars and rumors of wars across the globe. The Middle East has been turned upside down with the people taking the lead for change in their countries. The United States has become almost bankrupt to to corruption and out of control spending. America is the strongest empire that has ever existed on this planet and is on the verge of collapse. All of these events were written about in the Revelations. I believe that we are in the final days leading up to the second coming of Christ and the rapture. The clock started ticking when Israel once again became a state in 1948. We have not fully understood what was meant when the Bible told us that "This generation will not pass" before Christ returns. I have thought that a generation was 20 years or so. I have since thought that in this context, the Bible is referring to the "Baby Boomers." The generation that was born after WWII is referred to as "Baby Boomers." I believe that Christ will return during my lifetime or that of my fellow baby boomers. I have heard some Biblical scholars suggest that the second coming will occur in 2012. Some have speculated between 2012 and 2018. According to the Bible we will not know the exact hour or day. We are given signs to look for so that we can prepare but will not know the exact time. These are interesting times in which to live. We are seeing great changes taking place throughout the world. I would not have expected this country would be so willing to turn to socialism. I expected this country to forever embrace democracy or a representative republic form of government. There are millions of our fellow citizens who seem to be encouraging a reliance on government rather than themselves and God. Perhaps it is really the turning away from God that has turned them toward government to fill the void. Government has become the God that fills all their needs. It is unbelievable the changes that I have seen during my time on this planet.

Though we do not know the hour or the day, I personally believe that pertains to the Rapture.. The reason I say that is Because in Daniel it IMOP give the day that Christ returns at the second coming.

Daniel 12

1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
5 Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?”
7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.
8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?”
9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
13 “But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”


Right here gives a Time Table

11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

That from what I understand is durring the Tribulation, and from that day of the Sacrifice taken away the end result is Christ second Coming.. "IMOP" 1335 days according to the Hebrew Calendar that is 44 months and 3.7 years give or take because of the with an intercalary lunar month added seven times every nineteen years. Sound like the last half of the Tribulation to me, is when the Sacrifice is taken away.. This also coinsides with the Last week of Daniel in Chapter 9

24 “ Seventy weeks[a] are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of[b] sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
25 “ Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street[c] shall be built again, and the wall,[d]
Even in troublesome times.
26 “ And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
7 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

And here is the last week and a week is 7 years.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

that is 3.5 years and the Hebrew Calendar can well be 3.7 years..
So that points again "IMOP" the second coming..

Therefor the Rapture I would think is the one were we know not the day nor the hour,, but we know the season..

Just a thought..

Oh and it coincides with Revelations of the Dragon, Anti Christ, being able to hurt those of God durring this time, for 42 months, 3.5 years, 1260 days..

[JewelsnTools]

I used to take the Bible literally, until I found out that it was more like a textbook with spiritual teaching stories, with a lot of astrology thrown in. Like Jacob's 12 sons representing the twelve signs of the zodiac! *and yes, I know about the 13th that was originally a part, and has recently been returned to the line up* And how Adam and Eve didn't "fall" into "sin"-- disincarnate spirits "fell" into bodies---in other words, the "body of death" Paul speaks of in the New Testament refers to this. And how the numbers in the bible should be reduced to one digit, like the 144,000 in revelations equals 9, and how the number 7 (or 70: 7+0+7) points to the 7 main power points of the human body...which is the book that has the 7 seals along the back of it... and that some folks believe that the 24 elders that fall down before the throne are the 2 pairs of 12 cranial nerves that come out of the brain? And the four beasts represent the four divisions of the zodiac? There's that pesky astrology, again!
Also how the book of ezekiel points to some seriously hokey stuff that can happen to spirits that live in physical bodies! Woooo.... Did you know that the words that were translated as "Kingdom of Heaven" would be better translated as "Royal Power of the Universe"-----and that it was a FEMININE phrase?? Or how Joseph's time in the pit, or the 3 Hebrew boys, or Gideon's army all have to do with spiritual battles each human being will face while in this valley of the shadow of death??? I know, I know...just Google it..
I still genuinely, ardently LOVE my Bible, having spent a great deal of time studying it over the years. Now that I know better how to read it for the real lessons, it has truly come to life! And the lessons of Karma, new birth, and the Ruach HaKodesh are actually in the New Testament, but they "re-worded" a whole bunch of stuff.
Oh, and when we're told to take up our cross and follow, that's a serious truth that carries the real meaning of the gospel. And what is the "good news"---that we didn't "fall", that we ARE born of Spirit, and that as soon as we recognize how wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked we are without our spiritual life in order and connected, we can begin to see what being kin the the Creator is like!! That's what the Teacher was telling them--religion and ritual observance is a mind prison, but spirituality is a deep, eternal truth that all human spirits need to discover for themselves.....instead of just blindly following the blind churchy pimps into a ditch. Like I did for so long..

[Windwalker]

I did pretty much the same until 15 years ago. It wasn't a matter of looking for truth, but more a matter of looking for accuracy. It wasn't a matter of turning away from it, but looking far more closely at it, and comparing it with archaeological finds. My own thinking is that it provides a better understanding of God and how He works.

Most recently, I've been looking for the name used for God prior to the flood of Noah. There were those that spoke with him and heard his words before that, but by what name did they know him? One interesting reference I did find was a God that appears as a bird. And, Christians have the Holy Spirit that appears as a dove. But, from the days of Adam and Eve, there were people that spoke to God, and heard His words. By what name did they know Him? I'm finding all sorts of "Myths?" but trying to sift through it all is interesting. There is a reference to 3 deities that would be the same as "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost". I can't seem to find the article now, but the names are different than we know today.

[JewelsnTools]

WW~
Like what you say about not having begun this as a sort of looking for "truth", but for accuracy. I can also understand what you mean by not seeking to turn away, but to look more closely at it...because those were the doors through which my own search began.
When I began to find out about the Nicean Council(s), the Egyptian Horus/Osiris, Sumerians, Ahura Mazda, Zoroaster, Brahma/Abraham, the Gilgamesh Epic, Christmas & Easter, Saturnalia, the almost frightening mis-translations found in the bible, and about how the letters of the Hebrew alphabet can be formed by a toroid, I cried for months. And felt very lost.
In finding my way back, I questioned EVERYTHING. I held onto the bible because it was the holy book that my culture upheld---not because I'd done a comparative search for spiritual truth and found it as the sole authority. It isn't. No "religious" book is. It's the difference between looking at a sheet of music and hearing an orchestra play.
I didn't wish to turn away, either. I turned my full focus(upon being basically "blackballed" out of the industry--which I've actually come to a place of gratitude for because of the truth I then had time to discover!!) onto looking into it further. Then, I started seeing not into, but through, to something else.
When I recognized that NOTHING I "knew" or felt familiar with was the result of my own careful, personal search for truth, I realized that I had to let go of presuppositions. Way back in time, heavily veiled by the mists of antiquity(.... gosh, I love how that sounds:P) something happened that resulted in us spirit beings running around in bodies. Some of these spirits think "Allah" is Spirit Father's name. Some, YHWH, or some other name. Some thought it was Ptah. Some, Shiva & Kali. The point is that whatever the Name of the Origin of all is, the ancient belief of having power over the entity of whom you know the name is rather pointless when it comes to the Creator... What's better is knowing what comes from being connected to that Creator!
ALL OF THE HATRED, FEAR, ALONENESS, AND SENSE OF POWERLESSNESS IS NOW GONE. I no longer "avoid" people of other religions like they're worthless or confused. If anything, I'd LOVE to actually read the Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Jewish, Islamic holy books now, too! Seems they all have some piece of the puzzle! The sting of death leaves when we realize that we've actually lived many lives...funerals just aren't the same for me, now. What a relief it was to discover that we have both Adam AND Eve within, as the animus and anima of our psyches--the loneliness left, then. That my "dream man" is the strong, action-oriented, powerful Magi that dwells in my own soul, along with my Eve-ness! And when I read about synchronicity, or realized what the Teacher meant by "As you have believed, be it unto you", I was totally empowered!! The game, as they say, has now completely changed!
When I stopped searching for Spirit somewhere "out there", or in any book or teaching or guru or tradition or belief or dogma, I found the Pearl of Great Price where It's always been....right where the Teacher said it was: within.
Good luck with finding the name you seek, WW. Once you find it, look behind it. There's something much greater in store for those who care to look!
Jewels

[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by JewelsnTools

Good luck with finding the name you seek, WW. Once you find it, look behind it. There's something much greater in store for those who care to look!
Jewels

Actually, that's exactly what I have in mind. Once I know the name that was used to address GOD just prior and just after the flood, I expect to find the keys to many more doors. Yahweh didn't come along till the ancient Hebrews. But, that was also after the flood.

What got me started on that was finding out that GOD seems to have had a wife in ancient Hebrew. (Circa 800 BC) A female deity called Asherah. A little more digging brought up two more names. Astarte and Istar/Ishtar. That didn't answer anything, but it did raise many more questions. In ancient Hebrew, YAHWEH means "I am as I was", or "I am as I will be". Jehovah derived from that, so it's not actually His name. With all the Biblical patriarchs that heard His words and spoke with Him, surely, someone must have known His name. Among other places, I plan to take another "walk" through the "writings of gilgamesh" again.

[Slimland]

Originally Posted by JewelsnTools

I used to take the Bible literally, until I found out that it was more like a textbook with spiritual teaching stories, with a lot of astrology thrown in. Like Jacob's 12 sons representing the twelve signs of the zodiac! *and yes, I know about the 13th that was originally a part, and has recently been returned to the line up* And how Adam and Eve didn't "fall" into "sin"-- disincarnate spirits "fell" into bodies---in other words, the "body of death" Paul speaks of in the New Testament refers to this. And how the numbers in the bible should be reduced to one digit, like the 144,000 in revelations equals 9, and how the number 7 (or 70: 7+0+7) points to the 7 main power points of the human body...which is the book that has the 7 seals along the back of it... and that some folks believe that the 24 elders that fall down before the throne are the 2 pairs of 12 cranial nerves that come out of the brain? And the four beasts represent the four divisions of the zodiac? There's that pesky astrology, again!
Also how the book of ezekiel points to some seriously hokey stuff that can happen to spirits that live in physical bodies! Woooo.... Did you know that the words that were translated as "Kingdom of Heaven" would be better translated as "Royal Power of the Universe"-----and that it was a FEMININE phrase?? Or how Joseph's time in the pit, or the 3 Hebrew boys, or Gideon's army all have to do with spiritual battles each human being will face while in this valley of the shadow of death??? I know, I know...just Google it..
I still genuinely, ardently LOVE my Bible, having spent a great deal of time studying it over the years. Now that I know better how to read it for the real lessons, it has truly come to life! And the lessons of Karma, new birth, and the Ruach HaKodesh are actually in the New Testament, but they "re-worded" a whole bunch of stuff.
Oh, and when we're told to take up our cross and follow, that's a serious truth that carries the real meaning of the gospel. And what is the "good news"---that we didn't "fall", that we ARE born of Spirit, and that as soon as we recognize how wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked we are without our spiritual life in order and connected, we can begin to see what being kin the the Creator is like!! That's what the Teacher was telling them--religion and ritual observance is a mind prison, but spirituality is a deep, eternal truth that all human spirits need to discover for themselves.....instead of just blindly following the blind churchy pimps into a ditch. Like I did for so long..

It's good to see someone not putting God in a box..