[GMAN]

Originally Posted by MichiganDriver

The part apart Qualcomm backing you up several times... That sounds like working smarter, not harder to me. :thumbsup:

Why is it that truck drivers are bound and determined to defend their right to work 14 hours for 8 or 10 hours pay? Reducing the hours we can work to 13 won't take an hour's pay out of our wallets, we'll just have to work 1 less hour for the same money.

You assume that carriers will pay more for working less. I don't think that will happen. Taking an hour away from a driver's workday will not result in him getting a bigger paycheck. Drivers are mostly paid for the miles they drive. Taking an hour away from his workday means that he will drive fewer miles that day. Fewer miles equals a smaller paycheck. If a driver can average 60 miles per day and his pay is only $0.30/mile then he will lose $18/day. For 5 days that is $90/week or over $4,500 less that he will potentially earn in a year. If he can drive faster then he might make up the loss of income. He would need to average more than 65 mph to earn the same money before the loss of time. He won't be able to do that. Driving for a major carrier, he will likely not have a truck that is capable of driving faster than 62-65 mph. Just because something sounds good on paper doesn't make it better.

[Fozzy]

Originally Posted by GMAN

You assume that carriers will pay more for working less. I don't think that will happen. Taking an hour away from a driver's workday will not result in him getting a bigger paycheck.Drivers are mostly paid for the miles they drive.

Who demanded to be paid less? That would have been the drivers. The drivers gave away all the hourly pay and almost all of the bonuses (that paid for professionalism and quality work) to get more cpm. The result is that nothing matters to the drivers but the mileage pay. This means that for years they have made their worktime disappear and have shown almost nothing but driving hours and the rest they eat.. and have the audacity to then complain that they don't get paid for hours that they themselves "prove" don't exist by falsifying their logs. Meanwhile, the companies get paid for all of the stuff the drivers now do for free... win win for the companies and the shippers.. drivers only demand to be able to work longer for free to get out on the highway where the "big money" is..

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by Fozzy

Meanwhile, the companies get paid for all of the stuff the drivers now do for free...

I assume that you are referring to detention pay. Carriers don't usually get paid for sitting unless it is called for in the contract they have with the shipper or consignee. They are usually paid by the mile or load. Most will pay drivers detention after a certain amount of time has elapsed, providing they collect detention from the shipper or consignee. They usually don't pay for at least the first two hours.

[MichiganDriver]

Originally Posted by GMAN

You assume that carriers will pay more for working less. I don't think that will happen. Taking an hour away from a driver's workday will not result in him getting a bigger paycheck. Drivers are mostly paid for the miles they drive. Taking an hour away from his workday means that he will drive fewer miles that day. Fewer miles equals a smaller paycheck. If a driver can average 60 miles per day and his pay is only $0.30/mile then he will lose $18/day. For 5 days that is $90/week or over $4,500 less that he will potentially earn in a year. If he can drive faster then he might make up the loss of income. He would need to average more than 65 mph to earn the same money before the loss of time. He won't be able to do that. Driving for a major carrier, he will likely not have a truck that is capable of driving faster than 62-65 mph. Just because something sounds good on paper doesn't make it better.

What I assume is that we've all gotten soft. I've been checking my local craigslist since the beginning of the recession and there have been jobs available all along. It's mind boggling the number of people that have lost their homes due to lack of a job and otr trucking still pays pretty well and they aren't the least bit interested. Being away from home for days and weeks is too big a price to pay for being financially solvent I suppose.

Whether it's EOBRs or DOT cutting our hours I don't think we'll see a cut in pay. In fact, I think our pay is going up regardless. The softer America gets the better it is for people who are willing to work.

[Freedhardwoods]

Originally Posted by MichiganDriver

The softer America gets the better it is for people who are willing to work.

I agree, but only if we are allowed to work.

[Fozzy]

Originally Posted by GMAN

I assume that you are referring to detention pay. Carriers don't usually get paid for sitting unless it is called for in the contract they have with the shipper or consignee. They are usually paid by the mile or load. Most will pay drivers detention after a certain amount of time has elapsed, providing they collect detention from the shipper or consignee. They usually don't pay for at least the first two hours.

The drivers never see the contracts now do they?

[Fozzy]

Originally Posted by Freedhardwoods

I agree, but only if we are allowed to work.

70 hours in 8 days isn't enough?

[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by GMAN

I assume that you are referring to detention pay. Carriers don't usually get paid for sitting unless it is called for in the contract they have with the shipper or consignee. They are usually paid by the mile or load. Most will pay drivers detention after a certain amount of time has elapsed, providing they collect detention from the shipper or consignee. They usually don't pay for at least the first two hours.

Now see....IF detention started on arrival....or at least at the scheduled appointment time......there would not be "Unpaid" driver time. Instead of telling a company that they can hold a driver for 2 or 3 hours unpaid.....the industry standard should be....the truck arrives ontime at it's scheduled appointment....truck and driver get paid.

When a driver is forced to sit at a shipper's location or a consignee's location, for hours on end, with out remoneration (for those whom don't understand....that means PAID), THAT is unpaid wages. If the driver is unable to go and do as driver sees fit, as is always the case at either facility.....the driver should be collecting a wage. That does not happen....and it does not happen because of the way that FLSA was worded in 1932.

If the driver logs all of his or her time at a shipper's or consignee's location "Off-duty".....then the carrier is not obligated to pay the driver one red dime (nudgenudgewinkwink), yet...if the driver does log all that butt time as "On-duty".....then that driver is labeled "Un-cooperative" and is starved out, because that driver's HOS make him or her unavailable for that next load....cheap as it may be.

The FLSA is what makes corporations fairly compensate it's workers (yes..union bargaining does to an extent as well).....yet allows corporations to short pay "Truck Drivers". The FLSA statute that covers "Truck Drivers" was worded with all that high dollar "mileage pay" in mind......again...........IN 1932!!
FLSA needs to be changed just as much as DOT HOS doesn't.



end of rant

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by Fozzy

The drivers never see the contracts now do they?

I would not say never, but in most cases you are correct. When drivers work on percentage, they are usually allowed to see the rate confirmation.

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by Orangetxguy

Now see....IF detention started on arrival....or at least at the scheduled appointment time......there would not be "Unpaid" driver time. Instead of telling a company that they can hold a driver for 2 or 3 hours unpaid.....the industry standard should be....the truck arrives ontime at it's scheduled appointment....truck and driver get paid.

When a driver is forced to sit at a shipper's location or a consignee's location, for hours on end, with out remoneration (for those whom don't understand....that means PAID), THAT is unpaid wages. If the driver is unable to go and do as driver sees fit, as is always the case at either facility.....the driver should be collecting a wage. That does not happen....and it does not happen because of the way that FLSA was worded in 1932.

If the driver logs all of his or her time at a shipper's or consignee's location "Off-duty".....then the carrier is not obligated to pay the driver one red dime (nudgenudgewinkwink), yet...if the driver does log all that butt time as "On-duty".....then that driver is labeled "Un-cooperative" and is starved out, because that driver's HOS make him or her unavailable for that next load....cheap as it may be.

The FLSA is what makes corporations fairly compensate it's workers (yes..union bargaining does to an extent as well).....yet allows corporations to short pay "Truck Drivers". The FLSA statute that covers "Truck Drivers" was worded with all that high dollar "mileage pay" in mind......again...........IN 1932!!
FLSA needs to be changed just as much as DOT HOS doesn't.



end of rant

I think that one reason some of the major carriers want EOBR's on their trucks is to document reasons for being able to bill for sitting time. It would certainly change the paradigm if shippers and consignee's had to pay the truck from the time they arrived or bumped the dock. The carriers who have been willing to allow shippers to waste their time should have the intestinal fortitude to push for pay for sitting. Instead, they want the government to do the work for them by forcing everyone to have to go out and buy EOBR's for their trucks.