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-   -   Question about EOBR's (https://www.classadrivers.com/forum/rules-regulations-dac-oh-my/41088-question-about-eobrs.html)

Freedhardwoods 03-26-2011 02:24 AM

Question about EOBR's
 
I am gathering information for my letter to the fmcsa concerning mandatory eobr's. I have never used one and never want to. I would like to hear all possible ways that you can cheat while using them. We have a Canadian customer that buys one load per week. Occasionally they will order two loads and our company will have an outside carrier with eobr's take a load to the border where our driver takes the load across because they don't have passports. One driver knew he was about an hour short on his driving time of being able to make it to the meeting point. He told our driver that he gained the extra hour by stopping several times for 5 minutes which let him gain about 10 minutes driving time at every stop. Can anyone better explain how he did that as well as tell about other tricks that help you gain time?

Orangetxguy 03-26-2011 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freedhardwoods (Post 495932)
I am gathering information for my letter to the fmcsa concerning mandatory eobr's. I have never used one and never want to. I would like to hear all possible ways that you can cheat while using them. We have a Canadian customer that buys one load per week. Occasionally they will order two loads and our company will have an outside carrier with eobr's take a load to the border where our driver takes the load across because they don't have passports. One driver knew he was about an hour short on his driving time of being able to make it to the meeting point. He told our driver that he gained the extra hour by stopping several times for 5 minutes which let him gain about 10 minutes driving time at every stop. Can anyone better explain how he did that as well as tell about other tricks that help you gain time?

I've been on "E-Log" on Qualcomm for just over a year, and not once in the last year have I been able to squeeze out an extra hour of driving time. Qualcomm does not show driving time if you keep your speed down under 5mph and travel less than 7/10th of a mile, but once you start driving, any driving you might have done at a truckstop or inside a plant or warehouse complex is automaticly deducted from tyour driving time...which is a pain in the *****.

The best thing I like about E-Log.......cops do not question if you are legal or not, when you hand them the panel. They hand it right back without looking...........unless of course you have a little red light blinking for them to see!!

MichiganDriver 03-26-2011 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orangetxguy (Post 495935)
I've been on "E-Log" on Qualcomm for just over a year, and not once in the last year have I been able to squeeze out an extra hour of driving time. Qualcomm does not show driving time if you keep your speed down under 5mph and travel less than 7/10th of a mile, but once you start driving, any driving you might have done at a truckstop or inside a plant or warehouse complex is automaticly deducted from tyour driving time...which is a pain in the *****.

The best thing I like about E-Log.......cops do not question if you are legal or not, when you hand them the panel. They hand it right back without looking...........unless of course you have a little red light blinking for them to see!!

The system doesn't round off your times? As I understand it with paper logs if I stop at 12:05 I should log it as 12:00 and if I resume driving at 12:10 I should log it as 12:15. That would give me 10 minutes "free" driving time.

Freedhardwoods 03-26-2011 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichiganDriver (Post 495951)
The system doesn't round off your times? As I understand it with paper logs if I stop at 12:05 I should log it as 12:00 and if I resume driving at 12:10 I should log it as 12:15. That would give me 10 minutes "free" driving time.

That is what I assumed he was doing, but I wanted to hear it from someone who is actually using an e-log. The driver said what he was doing would get him through a roadside inspection, but not an in-house audit. I didn't talk to him myself. I'm not sure if he knows that, or just thinks that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orangetxguy (Post 495935)
I've been on "E-Log" on Qualcomm for just over a year, and not once in the last year have I been able to squeeze out an extra hour of driving time. Qualcomm does not show driving time if you keep your speed down under 5mph and travel less than 7/10th of a mile, but once you start driving, any driving you might have done at a truckstop or inside a plant or warehouse complex is automaticly deducted from tyour driving time...which is a pain in the *****.

The best thing I like about E-Log.......cops do not question if you are legal or not, when you hand them the panel. They hand it right back without looking...........unless of course you have a little red light blinking for them to see!!

If you would, explain that a little more. Does it accumulate 4 minutes here and 6 minutes there and add it as exact minutes, or does it do any kind of rounding?





Lots of people say "They don't read those letters" or "You are wasting your time". Mark Reddig on Landline Now (OOIDA's radio show) said that the fmcsa is required to read every comment that is sent to them and encouraged people to send in their comments. I have been a member of OOIDA for 17 or 18 years. Many of the members, including me, actually do something about the problems we face besides just whine about it. That is why we have so much influence.

I don't expect to point out something about cheating that they don't know, but as Mark and others have said, if you have facts to back up what you are saying, your letter can make a difference. I am doing research before I even start writing my comment. I did my research before I wrote my comment about the rule changes, which is why several local companies took copies of my letter for their employees and drivers to sign and and send in. People that do nothing but rant get little attention from anyone.

Orangetxguy 03-26-2011 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichiganDriver (Post 495951)
The system doesn't round off your times? As I understand it with paper logs if I stop at 12:05 I should log it as 12:00 and if I resume driving at 12:10 I should log it as 12:15. That would give me 10 minutes "free" driving time.

Well......I know that the QC I use logs everything that the truck does, the way it is done. If you stop for 5 minutes....it logs 5 minutes. You have to realize that the paper logs were made to show quarter hours years before an E-log was every thought up. On a paper log you can quite easily "give" yourself those extra minutes......but....you have to do a lot of stopping to gain 60 minutes of extra drive time.....so just what exactly could you be saving as far as time goes?

Orangetxguy 03-26-2011 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freedhardwoods (Post 495955)

That is what I assumed he was doing, but I wanted to hear it from someone who is actually using an e-log. The driver said what he was doing would get him through a roadside inspection, but not an in-house audit. I didn't talk to him myself. I'm not sure if he knows that, or just thinks that.



If you would, explain that a little more. Does it accumulate 4 minutes here and 6 minutes there and add it as exact minutes, or does it do any kind of rounding?





Lots of people say "They don't read those letters" or "You are wasting your time". Mark Reddig on Landline Now (OOIDA's radio show) said that the fmcsa is required to read every comment that is sent to them and encouraged people to send in their comments. I have been a member of OOIDA for 17 or 18 years. Many of the members, including me, actually do something about the problems we face besides just whine about it. That is why we have so much influence.

I don't expect to point out something about cheating that they don't know, but as Mark and others have said, if you have facts to back up what you are saying, your letter can make a difference. I am doing research before I even start writing my comment. I did my research before I wrote my comment about the rule changes, which is why several local companies took copies of my letter for their employees and drivers to sign and and send in. People that do nothing but rant get little attention from anyone.

E-log logs every thing done over 5 mph, exactly as it is done. It also snags any driving time that was done under 5mph, off of your "11 hour" drive time. So.....while you may be able to move a truck around a lot or facility without showing movement of the truck (under 7/10ths of a mile), if you do not get a full 8 hour sleeper berth period in, or a full 10 hour break in, before driving again, E-log takes that "lot movement" off your driving time, without showing that you physically moved the truck.

One thing to also know. If you move the truck while logged in the sleeper berth, the E-log can change the color of the graph line, from blue or brown to red or black. It might just place a dot on the graph....but that dot is a different color than the rest of the line.....and an attentive officer can catch that.

One other thing it does do, is record engine idle time.

DOT officers know all of this.

Freedhardwoods 03-26-2011 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orangetxguy (Post 495961)
One thing to also know. If you move the truck while logged in the sleeper berth, the E-log can change the color of the graph line, from blue or brown to red or black. It might just place a dot on the graph....but that dot is a different color than the rest of the line.....and an attentive officer can catch that.

One other thing it does do, is record engine idle time.

DOT officers know all of this.

Does that mean a dot cop can write you a ticket for a false log if you move while logged as sleeper berth or for idling in a non-idle state?

Freedhardwoods 03-26-2011 04:07 PM

For me, it is all about your individual rights. That is OOIDA's main concern also. I always have and always will say the government is sticking their nose where it doesn't belong in this and many other areas. As long as I or anyone else is driving safely, they should just leave us alone. Many companies have gone to EOBR's to keep the government off their back, not because of safety problems. It is a compliance tool, not a safety tool. There are many drivers driving tired instead of resting when they need to just to stay compliant.

I talked to the manager of a 100 truck company nearby that told me exactly that. They have had a very good safety record all along. The only reason they went to EOBR's was to avoid fines if they got audited. He also said it made a very significant drop in their profits when they switched because they couldn't haul near as many loads as before. I spoke with one of their drivers that has been there several years without any tickets. He said his personal income dropped 30% when they switched.

As with everything else concerning the government, they will probably get away with it because most people just sit back and do nothing but whine about it.

Someone will figure out a way to change the records without leaving tracks. It would be illegal, but since when does that stop anyone from doing anything?

MichiganDriver 03-26-2011 04:43 PM

As a guy who does paper logs I do use the grab 10 minutes driving time technique on occasion but a couple of things. First of all, they wrote the rules, not me, and if I follow the rules to the letter and round off, I'm doing exactly what they want me to do. Secondly, grabbing 10 minutes here and there with that technique does mean taking breaks more often. Short little 5 minutes breaks, but breaks nonetheless. I'll stretch my legs or make some coffee, something that gets me out of the drivers seat. More breaks = more alertness for a longer period of time.

GMAN 03-26-2011 06:57 PM

Has anyone noticed that more people are becoming fearful of our government? I have noticed a trend for at least the last couple of years where as the government pushes for more regulations and laws to control the people that more are becoming fearful of the government that is supposed to protect our rights.


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