[GMAN]

Originally Posted by Fozzy

Common sense would say that you would have some sleep studies to create hours of service regs that are better for humans to comply with. That's already happened and even the recommendations from the studies have been toyed with bent enough so even they are not as good as they should be for the health of the drivers and the safety of the general public. Most of the things that the super truckers complain about are things that allow them to disregard their own health at the expense of other humans. The tough guy stuff is just over. When having discussions on this topic for the last thirty years its always the same.. supposedly the drivers can and will shut down when they are tired.. and its proven time and time again that they will not. When the drivers refuse to comply with regulations and laws more and more mechanisms to insure compliance are forced on the industry.

Not long ago a Walmart driver crashed into several cars and killed and hurt a number of people. He used elogs and was legal. Yet, he was tired and became careless. Elogs will not result in more rested drivers. Elogs won't make roads safer. No amount of regulations will make roads safer. We have had more regulations imposed on this (and other) industries in the last year than any other year in history. There is no proof that running elogs make roads safer. There is some data which shows that elogs may actually demonstrate that elogs actually make roads less safe. When I am tired I shut down. Most owners and drivers that I know do the same. I understand that not all drivers will shut down when tired. But, that is human nature. Just because someone runs elogs doesn't necessarily mean that they are well rested and driving safely. You cannot regulate safety any more than you can regulate morality.

[Fozzy]

Originally Posted by GMAN

Not long ago a Walmart driver crashed into several cars and killed and hurt a number of people. He used elogs and was legal. Yet, he was tired and became careless. Elogs will not result in more rested drivers. Elogs won't make roads safer. No amount of regulations will make roads safer. We have had more regulations imposed on this (and other) industries in the last year than any other year in history. There is no proof that running elogs make roads safer. There is some data which shows that elogs may actually demonstrate that elogs actually make roads less safe. When I am tired I shut down. Most owners and drivers that I know do the same. I understand that not all drivers will shut down when tired. But, that is human nature. Just because someone runs elogs doesn't necessarily mean that they are well rested and driving safely. You cannot regulate safety any more than you can regulate morality.

When did it become legal to drive fatigued? None of the logs paper or other wise can ensure that some idiot will not get rest and murder people.. Of course now with the investigation and the documentation from the crime scene.. the driver will hopefully be sent to prison for life.. and get shanked and die.

[GMAN]

As far as I know there is no federal law which dictates that a driver cannot drive while fatigued. The law simply states that we must show 10 hours in the sleeper and/or off duty before driving.

[Fozzy]

Originally Posted by GMAN

As far as I know there is no federal law which dictates that a driver cannot drive while fatigued. The law simply states that we must show 10 hours in the sleeper and/or off duty before driving.

But of course when accidents like the above happen a simple investigation ensues and the driver is up for manslaughter and the company is being sued for millions or billions of dollars. Paper logs won't change that either. The fact remains that drivers and companies do not want electronic logs because they cannot falsify them. The driver in the above scenario was 100% legal in his HOS.. its a poor example to use when trying to come up with some argument against electronic logging / HOS compliance.

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§ 392.3: Ill or fatigued operator.

No driver shall operate a commercial motor vehicle, and a motor carrier shall not require or permit a driver to operate a commercial motor vehicle, while the driver's ability or alertness is so impaired, or so likely to become impaired, through fatigue, illness, or any other cause, as to make it unsafe for him/her to begin or continue to operate the commercial motor vehicle. However, in a case of grave emergency where the hazard to occupants of the commercial motor vehicle or other users of the highway would be increased by compliance with this section, the driver may continue to operate the commercial motor vehicle to the nearest place at which that hazard is removed.

Citation: [35 FR 7800, May 21, 1970, as amended at 60 FR 38746, July 28, 1995]

[firebird_1252]

sir you just do not make sense. the results of the elogs are already starting. the roads are getting more and more cluttered on the side of the road with people sleeping on the sides of the road because they're out of hours. now whats the excuse going to be when some drunk driver falls asleep rear ends the other truck? or the person not paying attention hits the truck ont he side of the road?

when I'm tired I stop. 90% of the people I know when they're tired they stop. that's both company drivers and O/O

[Fozzy]

Originally Posted by firebird_1252

sir you just do not make sense. the results of the elogs are already starting. the roads are getting more and more cluttered on the side of the road with people sleeping on the sides of the road because they're out of hours.

Maybe they needed to plan better?

Originally Posted by firebird_1252

now whats the excuse going to be when some drunk driver falls asleep rear ends the other truck? or the person not paying attention hits the truck ont he side of the road?

The drive could be killed, the driver will probably be arrested for parking on the shoulder where prohibited, the company will be fined out of existence etc etc etc etc

Originally Posted by firebird_1252

when I'm tired I stop. 90% of the people I know when they're tired they stop. that's both company drivers and O/O

well if your tired, stop.. I strongly suggest you don't stop on the shoulder of a road... as the above applies.

[firebird_1252]

Originally Posted by Fozzy

Maybe they needed to plan better?



The drive could be killed, the driver will probably be arrested for parking on the shoulder where prohibited, the company will be fined out of existence etc etc etc etc

well if your tired, stop.. I strongly suggest you don't stop on the shoulder of a road... as the above applies.

theres no such thing as planning in this business. I do the same run day in and out. so its easy for me. I know where I'm going and what not. theres some where its just not possible. I want to know why you are so pro elogs? are you a o/o?

so you are saying its fair that if you run lets say where I do up to long island that you pass the 1 truck stop coming out on 80. you could easy sit in traffic for 2+ hours.. guess what on long island.. NO WHERE to stop. so.. what do you do?

[Fozzy]

Originally Posted by firebird_1252

theres no such thing as planning in this business. I do the same run day in and out. so its easy for me. I know where I'm going and what not. theres some where its just not possible. I want to know why you are so pro elogs? are you a o/o?

So there is no planning yet you somehow pull off planning.. Any driver who waits until they are out of hours or NEARLY out of hours to plan where to stop deserves the outcome that they get...

Originally Posted by firebird_1252

so you are saying its fair that if you run lets say where I do up to long island that you pass the 1 truck stop coming out on 80. you could easy sit in traffic for 2+ hours.. guess what on long island.. NO WHERE to stop. so.. what do you do?

So let me get this straight.. you know that there is a real chance that you could sit in traffic for two plus hours (sounds predictable to me) and that when you get to said "one truck stop" you have limited hours to drive or certainly less time that it takes to get to the destination... what should the answer be? You can answer this one yourself. Most carriers will use (wrongly or rightly) the 16 hour rule to allow drivers to get somewhere when for all intents and purposes, the driver knew that they would run out of hours.

As I said earlier in this post and several hundred posts and discussions over the last four decades I've had this discussion several times and its always the same... drivers pretending that HOS don't matter then complaining that some other group (usually foreigners) are cutting their throats.. well, the throat cutters who destroyed the pay and the prestige of the industry are the ones who now complain the loudest. The throat cutters cut everyone's throats until there is no money left in the industry and now demand to run even longer for free... LOL!!!!

[Maniac]

My 99 KW keeps going UP in value................

[firebird_1252]

Originally Posted by Fozzy

So there is no planning yet you somehow pull off planning.. Any driver who waits until they are out of hours or NEARLY out of hours to plan where to stop deserves the outcome that they get...



So let me get this straight.. you know that there is a real chance that you could sit in traffic for two plus hours (sounds predictable to me) and that when you get to said "one truck stop" you have limited hours to drive or certainly less time that it takes to get to the destination... what should the answer be? You can answer this one yourself. Most carriers will use (wrongly or rightly) the 16 hour rule to allow drivers to get somewhere when for all intents and purposes, the driver knew that they would run out of hours.

As I said earlier in this post and several hundred posts and discussions over the last four decades I've had this discussion several times and its always the same... drivers pretending that HOS don't matter then complaining that some other group (usually foreigners) are cutting their throats.. well, the throat cutters who destroyed the pay and the prestige of the industry are the ones who now complain the loudest. The throat cutters cut everyone's throats until there is no money left in the industry and now demand to run even longer for free... LOL!!!!

again, i do the same run trips a week every week. and when i'm coming in i'm also passing the house. my run is very easy so...

i'll agree about those cutting rates but.. its not valid to this discussion. i'm out there to make money. all i'm asking for is my freedom. the e-logs are more stressful. theres no 2 ways about it.