[Cam]

Guys, fuel is already at $3 in places and could hit $4 this summer. I don't know about all of you but Landstar's fuel surcharge lags behind when you do get it, sometimes you don't. If there are companies guaranteeing a fsc that actually keeps up with the increases...one more reason to look at cents per mile.

I know some of you flatbedders and what not expect to cover any increases on the linehaul, but in the case of vans...some kind of pegged, no excuses fsc is something to think about, IMO.

No trying to spread Barr Nunn propaganda and recruit anyone but I just thought I would contribute with info...here is what barr-nunn offers in the way of fuel...straight from the website

Barr-Nunn is very proud to announce the implementation of a revolutionary new fuel protection guarantee for our Owner/Operator fleet. The program guarantees that Barr-Nunn's Owner/Operators will not pay more than $1.24 per gallon for fuel.

I am not an O/O so I dont know the ins and outs of this deal/program...but thats what they offer. Just thought i would put that out for some info since there is talk of fuel prices and surcharges on this thread. Not sure if that would make up for the standard low CPM that Barr Nunn and other carriers offer O/O's

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by Prodigy

ya know gman alot of members love to harp on that, yet they hardly ever mention companies that do pay %.

I believe mercer does, but who has a bigger freightbase, crete or mercer??

When picking a co. you have to look at the big picture.

Percentage don't mean crap if you deadhead for free 1200+ miles per month. Does anyone think of that one :?:

I mention carriers who pay percentage all the time. Landstar, CRST Malone, Mercer, Jones, Besl and Kaplan are a few. There are more carriers who pay mileage than percentage. I know people who have been leased to all of these carriers. I have personally leased to two of them. I ALWAYS made more leasing on percentage than people whom I knew who leased to mileage carriers. The same could be said of those friends who lease to some of the other percentage carriers listed. It can take more effort to lease to one of these carriers than a mileage carrier. It doesn't matter how much you deadhead if you have a high enough rate. With the last carrier I leased to I averaged about double of what most of these mileage carriers pay. My deadhead averaged around 10%. The deadhead is relative. If the rate is high enough, you can afford to deadhead. With mileage, it doesn't matter. You make the same money regardless of where you run. Part of doing well under percentage is managing your time and planning your work. If I pulled the same equipment for a carrier who paid mileage, I would have been running for at least 30% less, even with their fuel surcharge.

You are right about looking at the big picture when considering a carrier. Comparing can be confusing. I don't know if Crete of Mercer has the larger freight base. My guess would be Crete has the larger one. They also have more trucks competing for the same freight. It isn't just the size of the freight base, but what it pays, at least if you are working on percentage. Mercer and the other carriers I listed all have a sizable freight base. When you look at freight base, you need to look at the capacity. I find it is usually relative. I would go with the carrier that I could make the most money. I am not saying that Crete or Barr-Nunn are not good companies, but I would not want to lease to either of them, at least as far as I know about their compensation. Crete pays their company drivers well, but I would question how much an owner operator could actually earn. I believe both of these carriers will pay owner operators comparably.

[Cam]

Originally Posted by Jagerbomber

No trying to spread Barr Nunn propaganda and recruit anyone but I just thought I would contribute with info...here is what barr-nunn offers in the way of fuel...straight from the website

Barr-Nunn is very proud to announce the implementation of a revolutionary new fuel protection guarantee for our Owner/Operator fleet. The program guarantees that Barr-Nunn's Owner/Operators will not pay more than $1.24 per gallon for fuel.

I am not an O/O so I dont know the ins and outs of this deal/program...but thats what they offer. Just thought i would put that out for some info since there is talk of fuel prices and surcharges on this thread. Not sure if that would make up for the standard low CPM that Barr Nunn and other carriers offer O/O's

That's a good post. That fuel rate guarantee will mean a whole lot more with diesel at $4 per gallon. It seems where I am they have given up on trying to offset fuel prices back to $1.10 or $1.25 or whatever it's supposed to be. It's to be expected. If companies will intentionally short you with 'shortest' miles pay, you can expect them to deal with the 'price pressures' of high fuel by pushing some of it off on the O/Os. Apparently in Barr Nunn's case, they're saying they won't do it. If no one beats me to it, and please do, :idea: we can probably pull right off their websites:

How much per mile, loaded and empty
Practical or shortest miles
How much fsc, loaded and empty
Number of power units (to get an idea of size of freight base)
Average Length of haul
Info on terminals and driver's facitlities (overstuffed chairs help keep me sane when I'm following the buffalo for weeks at a time)
Any extra benefits like discounted mechanical work...

[Cam]

Originally Posted by GMAN

I mention carriers who pay percentage all the time. Landstar, CRST Malone, Mercer, Jones, Besl and Kaplan are a few. There are more carriers who pay mileage than percentage. I know people who have been leased to all of these carriers. I have personally leased to two of them. I ALWAYS made more leasing on percentage than people whom I knew who leased to mileage carriers. The same could be said of those friends who lease to some of the other percentage carriers listed. It can take more effort to lease to one of these carriers than a mileage carrier. It doesn't matter how much you deadhead if you have a high enough rate. With the last carrier I leased to I averaged about double of what most of these mileage carriers pay. My deadhead averaged around 10%. The deadhead is relative. If the rate is high enough, you can afford to deadhead. With mileage, it doesn't matter. You make the same money regardless of where you run. Part of doing well under percentage is managing your time and planning your work. If I pulled the same equipment for a carrier who paid mileage, I would have been running for at least 30% less, even with their fuel surcharge.

You are right about looking at the big picture when considering a carrier. Comparing can be confusing. I don't know if Crete of Mercer has the larger freight base. My guess would be Crete has the larger one. They also have more trucks competing for the same freight. It isn't just the size of the freight base, but what it pays, at least if you are working on percentage. Mercer and the other carriers I listed all have a sizable freight base. When you look at freight base, you need to look at the capacity. I find it is usually relative. I would go with the carrier that I could make the most money. I am not saying that Crete or Barr-Nunn are not good companies, but I would not want to lease to either of them, at least as far as I know about their compensation. Crete pays their company drivers well, but I would question how much an owner operator could actually earn. I believe both of these carriers will pay owner operators comparably.

We can bring you two closer together though not saying you even care to :lol: On the company side, flats and vans pay about the same. How about on the O/O cents per mile, do they pay about the same? Now, here's the difference, on percentage, flats and vans DO NOT pay the same.

So, I'm thinking vans on percentage is going to be closer to cpm than flats on percentage. Flats on percentage makes sense, you just make more and that offsets your costs. Vans on percentage you make less so it may not be enough to beat the paid deadhead, $4/gal diesel fsc, free dispatching (zero time spent looking for loads) on a cpm job. This is it! This explains the difference between the pro cpm and pro percentage view, yeah?

[mike3fan]

Originally Posted by Cam

So, I'm thinking vans on percentage is going to be closer to cpm than flats on percentage. Flats on percentage makes sense, you just make more and that offsets your costs. Vans on percentage you make less so it may not be enough to beat the paid deadhead, $4/gal diesel fsc, free dispatching (zero time spent looking for loads) on a cpm job. This is it! This explains the difference between the pro cpm and pro percentage view, yeah?

I guess if the rate is terrible on the van you would be correct,but the point is that at places like Landstar and others that you get paid percentage the rates are usually better,I was leased on with Landstar for 4 years and never hauled anything close to .90cpm.

Landstar is all about getting hooked up with a few good agents and working for them rather than running the system,I doubt I would ever go back to them,but I did make good money with them.I just had other problems with the way they run their business.

Also with the fuel gurantee you probably won't be getting a fuel surcharge with that,another reason that percentage pay is better is I get a fuel surcharge based on gross revenue,not just a per mile figure(.20cpm). For example on the load I'm on now my fuel surcharge at 20% is $502,the trip is 805 miles,at 6mpg I will use a little over 134 gallons of fuel,which will cost $362.11. if you were running mileage you would get 805x.20fsc=$161,plus your $1@mile =$805 for a total of $966

If you were on the controlled fuel cost it would be 134 gallons x 1.24 it would cost you $166.16 compared to my $362.11 for a savings of $195.95
Your rate $805+$195.95=$1000.95

I now there is not alot of van freight that pays as good as what I am getting,but there is plenty of $2+ freight at these places if you know where to look(don't expect it to be on Lanstar's loadboard).

The freight base really doesn't mean much to me because 80% of what they offer wouldn't be worth running and of the other 20% that paid good how much do you think a company truck will get over a O/O?

I pulled a 48' dry van at Landstar and I made over $175,000 on 125,000 miles,it is out there but you have to work to find it.

And to be honest I will do much better this year where I am at now(knocks on wood).

[solo379]

Originally Posted by jeff_jeff11us

So far I see that Crete and Barr Nunn are rated prety high here.

And from what I've heard, too! But don't mix company, and O/O!
As of to O/O concerned, those companies is pretty much the same!
Yes, you could survive with most of them, with the good money management, but basically, at best, you'll match the company drivers pay!

No offence, but i call it;-"Will work for food" O/O! :lol: :wink:

[Cam]

Originally Posted by mike3fan

I guess if the rate is terrible on the van you would be correct,but the point is that at places like Landstar and others that you get paid percentage the rates are usually better,I was leased on with Landstar for 4 years and never hauled anything close to .90cpm. .90/.65= 1.38 linehaul. I mt in Salem OR on Thursday. If I could get not too heavy, 1.38 linehaul and .30 fsc going to any good freight area I'd be all over it. Guys haul for that rate all the time. And, I'm much more picky than a lot of BCOs, I believe. You didn't haul for anything near that rate. That doesn't mean that most drivers nowadays aren't hauling for that rate at times. Sure, I'm going out to Cali at 1.47/mile to the truck. But, to get out of a dead area, which is where a whole lot of good loads end up- NE, west, NW, FL, west TX... 1.38 linehaul plus .30 would be decent. Thing is, at Landstar, it's the odd load paying a full fsc like .30 at today's fuel prices.

Landstar is all about getting hooked up with a few good agents and working for them rather than running the system,I doubt I would ever go back to them,but I did make good money with them.I just had other problems with the way they run their business. People are telling me it's down over the last couple of years. One guy keeps all this logistics equipment in his trailer and was showing it to me and telling me how much he used to make. I've only been there a year so I'm just going by what I'm hearing.
Also with the fuel gurantee you probably won't be getting a fuel surcharge with that I don't know how that works but if anyone is actually buying fuel at $1.25 I'm sure there is no fsc, there doesn't need to be. That'd be just great because there is no fsc for idling, going home, going out of route, and if you are on percentage, no fsc for your deadhead... ,another reason that percentage pay is better is I get a fuel surcharge based on gross revenue,not just a per mile figure(.20cpm). For example on the load I'm on now my fuel surcharge at 20% is $502,the trip is 805 miles,at 6mpg I will use a little over 134 gallons of fuel,which will cost $362.11. if you were running mileage you would get 805x.20fsc=$161,plus your $1@mile =$805 for a total of $966 Percentage fuel surcharge can be very nice. A time or two I've gotten percentage on the fuel and it worked out over 40cpm. But that's rare over here. Percentage of the linehaul and percentage on the fuel are two separate things. Yeah, if you are getting a percentage on fuel all the time, you are probably coming out way ahead- of course it depends on the percentage.

If you were on the controlled fuel cost it would be 134 gallons x 1.24 it would cost you $166.16 compared to my $362.11 for a savings of $195.95
Your rate $805+$195.95=$1000.95

I now there is not alot of van freight that pays as good as what I am getting,but there is plenty of $2+ freight at these places if you know where to look(don't expect it to be on Lanstar's loadboard). Does it exist, yes. Plentiful, I don't think so. Well, you know, what, you marry an agent's daughter!? You hear things. Problem is, there are a lot more guys getting their ears tickled with heresay and rumors than there are guys with sweetheart deals. I've always got my ear to the ground, but I still haven't landed anything special that's way above what the average BCO is getting.
The freight base really doesn't mean much to me because 80% of what they offer wouldn't be worth running and of the other 20% that paid good how much do you think a company truck will get over a O/O? If it's cents per mile it all pays the same.
I pulled a 48' dry van at Landstar and I made over $175,000 on 125,000 miles,it is out there but you have to work to find it.

And to be honest I will do much better this year where I am at now(knocks on wood).

That's cool, I don't know what you've got going on. But it seems to me the guys who do well will talk about and the guys who are running for cheap keep their mouths shut. Case in point, how many cents per mile O/O post to this board? If they are working for cents per mile they aren't telling anyone. Most O/O work for cents per mile, so why don't any of them post on this forum.

Personally, I'm trying to position myself for higher profit margins. I don't want to be using up my tractor for a minimal profit. LOADIT had a good term for it, he called it protecting your equipment or something like that. I almost bought a used headache rack/securement last week- I had a whole day off to look at it and buy it and then my delivery appointment changed and I had to get going. I've been talking about going flats for a year now. On the radio, I heard someone say 'gas' could hit $4/gal by the end of the summer. I'm ready to stop thinking about it and start rolling tarps. I've been in the Army, played HS football. I've slept in holes in the ground. I have no problem whatsoever with getting dirty and doing some physical work. I just need a reason. I feel I have reasons. Now I just need to get back to Jacksonville so I can get that guy's stuff

[GMAN]

You can make money regardless of what type of freight you haul. Sometimes you need to think outside of the box. I have met BCO's who pull a van and make $2/mile (to the truck), and others who are close to half that amount. When you are an owner operator you are a businessman. It is difficult for some drivers to grasp that concept. Some never seem to make it out of that mindset. Those who treat it like a business will usually find a way to make it work. Those who still look at themselves as a driver will find it difficult to make things work. Every company will have their pros and cons.

[Cam]

Originally Posted by GMAN

You can make money regardless of what type of freight you haul. Sometimes you need to think outside of the box. I have met BCO's who pull a van and make $2/mile (to the truck), and others who are close to half that amount. When you are an owner operator you are a businessman. It is difficult for some drivers to grasp that concept. Some never seem to make it out of that mindset. Those who treat it like a business will usually find a way to make it work. Those who still look at themselves as a driver will find it difficult to make things work. Every company will have their pros and cons.

Gman, I've heard of guys getting rich buying lottery tickets. I'm not talking about the one in a thousand. I'm not talking the fairy tales, I'm talking about what the majority of BCO's are making. Does somebody make $2 per mile to the truck pulling dry van!? 8,000 power units, yeah, probably somebody.