[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by Fredog

Within seconds, a bus carrying the Chippewa Falls High School band members and staff struck the truck, causing the deaths of five passengers.


sounds like the bus driver wasnt paying attention either

And that right there is why this guy did not get convicted in state court, of negligent homicide and 32 other counts.


Here is one "local" article about his "Federal" conviction, for falsifying his log book.

Attorney: Truck driver to appeal in Wisconsin bus crash

and the other article, about his state trial.

May 1, 2007: Truck driver not guilty on all counts in bus crash

When you read the story of his acquittal, you will notice that his lawyers did a very good job, of bringing to light one of the largest and most frequent safety violations in the country, school bus driver's whom drive tired.


Lowrange (Carl), wants discussion about why this guy is convicted for log book falsification.

This guy chose to present a log book to investigator's, that showed him IN the sleeper berth, at the time of the accident.

The various articles point out that the "Federal" investigator's used fuel receipts, toll receipts, cameras, and various other "tools" to prove their case.

This guy showed that log book falsification was a regular trait of his. The next trail will probably be the dispatchers and managers of the company, if the "Fed's" choose to take them to court as well, an option which they still have.

Lowrange. You surely are not falsifying your log book on a regular basis, pulling hazmat....right? Especially if your truck is equipped with qualcomm or peoplenet. Right?


Another article describing the fed's case and the circumstances leading up to the accident and the federal charges.

http://www.startribune.com/local/330...L7PQLanchO7DiU

[lowrange]

Originally Posted by marcel27208

long story short........it easier to get caught with a qualcomm! If u have ever gotten behind the wheel then you have falsified your logs. Some just make a habit of it more than others......Im leased on to a company with a Qualcomm and its harder to do but i still do it, but i ALWAYS have to take a COMPLETE 10 hr break. When i didnt have qualcomm it was easier and i always made any receipts match my logs. BUT,,,,, if i ever had the opportunity, like lowrange said, if i got to a shipper/reciever 7 hours early, and then got unloaded OF COURSE i made it look like ive been sitting there 10 hours. Falsifying is not right but its common knowledge to anyone from dispatchers to DOT that it goes on. Otherwise we would see ALOT more gettin pulled over and checked.

I just realized, some of the guys who preach telling the truth are the real liars. :lol: You want to find liars? They're in the safety departments of most companies. Anyway, it's much like you said.

We used to have this one account that always jammed you on the delivery time. I talked to one of the drivers for the company that took over the account and they are jamming them, too. BTW- the company rhymes with 'wow' and it's in Midland, MI.

Anyway, I hate those runs. I don't like drinking monster energy drinks to make my deliveries. Speaking of which, for all the lying goody two-shoes, what do you think all those energy drinks and stimulants in the truckstops are there for? I digress. The point being, the shippers and receivers with their just-in-time inventory systems create many of the problems. Someone could go up to 'wow' and see how they are scheduling these loads, sit there and realize drivers don't actually drive 'shortest miles', and start throwing some of them in jail instead of the guy caught between feeding his family, the DOT, and the companies and customers he works for.

[zipy46]

Originally Posted by lowrange

I just realized, some of the guys who preach telling the truth are the real liars. :lol: You want to find liars? They're in the safety departments of most companies.

Safety Department.... ?

Uhhhh....they keep the company safe sir....

[lowrange]

Originally Posted by Orangetxguy

Lowrange. You surely are not falsifying your log book on a regular basis, pulling hazmat....right? Especially if your truck is equipped with qualcomm or peoplenet. Right?

Never, OTG. You and me, we get to the consignee at midnight for a 7am delivery, we finish at 10 am and head straight to a truckstop and don't move until 8pm that night. Or, maybe you're saying I shouldn't go to the truckstop because I'd have to log that illegally, I guess you just hang out at the consignee all day? You are great!

FTR- The only details I knew of this case are from the article I posted. As indicated, I don't have problems with prosecuting a case like the guy who had been driving for 24 hours at the time of his accident. I'll take a look at those links. If the Wisconsin guy was doing something crazy, not something 99% of drivers not named sportster65, OTG or lowrange are doing, then I'll have no problems with this prosecution, either.

[lowrange]

Originally Posted by zipy46

Safety Department.... ?

Uhhhh....they keep the company safe sir....

Uh huh. Safe from lawsuits.

[Orangetxguy]

Yet another article about this accident, and one that explains in greater detail why the NTSB has recommended the charges. Something I find disturbing, is the lack of the NTSB to clarify what the 78 year old school bus driver was doing, while the school band was performing in it's day long competition.

This portion of the article is what I find troubling,

The fatalities; Along with the 78-year-old Rasmus, the crash killed the marching band's popular director, 48-year-old Douglas Greenhalgh, known to students as "G"; his wife, Therese, 51; their 11-year-old granddaughter Morgan Greenhalgh, and Branden Atherton, a 24-year-old student-teacher.

What the band was involved in; Early Oct. 16, 2005, the buses were rolling home to Chippewa Falls from the state band finals at the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater. Just before 2 a.m., several hours after the band had taken third place in the competition, the bus driven by Rasmus slammed into the dark undercarriage of Kozlowski's overturned semitrailer in the westbound lanes of I-94 near Osseo, Wis.

And the defense attorney's successful argument;

Kozlowski's attorney, Earl Gray of St. Paul, argued that two separate accidents occurred -- Kozlowski's semi overturning and, seconds later, the crash. Gray built his defense around the argument that Rasmus was tired and had poor eyesight that prevented him from recognizing the danger and stopping in time.

What do you all think. Do you think that the bus driver had adequate rest before he drove that bus towards the home school district?

Or do you think maybe the bus driver watched most of the competition, as I have seen numerous bus drivers do over the years, then drove the bus wetward into a fatal accident?

I find this statement from the NTSB, hard to understand;

The absence of lighting on the semitrailer truck and Rasmus' use of low-beam headlights made it difficult for him to see the overturned truck, the NTSB said. But his early problems with cataracts -- a key defense argument at the criminal trial -- most likely didn't affect the outcome of the crash, the NTSB said.
The NTSB also said that the bus, owned by Chippewa Trails, had out-of-adjustment brakes, but that probably didn't contribute to the accident.

And...I really don't buy this arguement from the defense attorney either;

Gray argued in the trial that Kozlowski lost control when he pulled over to urinate.

Just to add to the argument!

[lowrange]

Ok, let me get this out here. While many guys aren't perfect like sportster65 and AVC, the guy in Wisconsin was out there in what I'd consider the extreme, like the guy who had been driving 24 hours straight. From the link above:

He had completed no logs at all in the five days before he fell asleep shortly before 2 a.m. and drifted off the shoulder of the highway, the report said.

Ok, with the new information I agree with the prosecution. You don't touch a logbook for five days...you're asking for it. Still, man, AVC, you are awesome!

[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by lowrange

Never, OTG. You and me, we get to the consignee at midnight for a 7am delivery, we finish at 10 am and head straight to a truckstop and don't move until 8pm that night. Or, maybe you're saying I shouldn't go to the truckstop because I'd have to log that illegally, I guess you just hang out at the consignee all day? You are great!

FTR- The only details I knew of this case are from the article I posted. As indicated, I don't have problems with prosecuting a case like the guy who had been driving for 24 hours at the time of his accident. I'll take a look at those links. If the Wisconsin guy was doing something crazy, not something 99% of drivers not named sportster65, OTG or lowrange are doing, then I'll have no problems with this prosecution, either.

Carl, I do not park at Shipper's or Receiver's, even if they provide such space.

While QC may allow you to do that, Miller does not. Miller has been matching QC information to my log's, since I hired on two years ago. I learned early on, to just stop before I ran out of time.

And to answer an earlier situation you posed to someone....Yes, if I have burned off to much time at a Shipper, I inform Miller of my estimated arrival time, at the consignee, and request the unload appointment be moved to accomodate the HOS. I send all those request's via qualcomm, not by phone. Something else I learned early on.

I do not plan my trips to use 11 hours of driving time. I plan my trips to use 9.5 to 10 hours of driving, each transit day. If I get tired, I stop and I sleep. If needed I request appointment adjustment, to accomodate HOS.

I never make anything I do "about me", I make it about "safety and HOS", that way Miller cannot slam me with service failures, based on driver error. I also document everything I do, on the log page, as well as in a personal journal. Three times in the last year, my logs and my journal, have kept me from being "service failed". Twice the issues included contaminated product delivered to "Consignee Storage".

[lowrange]

Originally Posted by Orangetxguy

Carl, I do not park at Shipper's or Receiver's, even if they provide such space.

While QC may allow you to do that, Miller does not. Miller has been matching QC information to my log's, since I hired on two years ago. I learned early on, to just stop before I ran out of time.

And to answer an earlier situation you posed to someone....Yes, if I have burned off to much time at a Shipper, I inform Miller of my estimated arrival time, at the consignee, and request the unload appointment be moved to accomodate the HOS. I send all those request's via qualcomm, not by phone. Something else I learned early on.

I do not plan my trips to use 11 hours of driving time. I plan my trips to use 9.5 to 10 hours of driving, each transit day. If I get tired, I stop and I sleep. If needed I request appointment adjustment, to accomodate HOS.

I never make anything I do "about me", I make it about "safety and HOS", that way Miller cannot slam me with service failures, based on driver error. I also document everything I do, on the log page, as well as in a personal journal. Three times in the last year, my logs and my journal, have kept me from being "service failed". Twice the issues included contaminated product delivered to "Consignee Storage".

Oh, I do everything completely legal, too, OTG.

So, one more time, you'd let 45 minutes stand between you spending the weekend at the house instead of a truckstop 700 miles away?

[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by lowrange

Oh, I do everything completely legal, too, OTG.

So, one more time, you'd let 45 minutes stand between you spending the weekend at the house instead of a truckstop 700 miles away?

Yes Carl, I would.

First, I can only, by "company" policy travel 660 miles in a "day". I have laid over in Louisiana numerous times, over the last 4 years.

Second. Nobody can forsee an accident. I am not going to hang my azz "out to dry", just so I can be home. When I am ready to sit at home, I plan it. I take more than a night. I take a week. I take 4 days. I do not worry about being "home" for just an evening.

However...I am single...so there is no real rush for me to be here.


In 30 years of filling out log books, I have never been hit with a "violation". LOL...I have received "letters" from the company, for infringing on "policy" (mostly over the company miles per hour average), but as far as how logs are viewed by the DOT, I have never been cited.

I can not tell you the numbers of times my logs have been checked, by DOT officers, there are just to many times to count.

What the guy in this incident, this accident, did, was wrong. He has only himself to blame. If his bosses and dispatchers condoned it, they should be facing charges as well.