[zipy46]

I talked to this fellow who works pulling tankers with dangerous chemicals on board...

They are tracked and monitored to make sure they run legal and compliant.

One time a fellow got hotheaded because they were late on his hometime and

he decided to 'make a run' for it so he could get home and out of the truck.

.......within 2 hours the State Patrol had him in custody.

[Cueball]

Kind of long, Sorry...
I'm not making excuses for either side, but... When of the things to consider is this. When the hours of service were changed, they were changed for trucks. Not buses. This situation not that it matters immensely involved a motorcoach not a school bus. Most school districts have policies in place that if a function occurs outside of a certain distance, they have to take motorcoaches instead of school buses. The rules and regs did not change for motorcoaches and they can< or at least at the time of this incident, could stop there clocks by going off duty. I have driven trucks and 40 and 45 foot motorcoaches. I had many trips like this driver was involved with. You're up at 0600 and don't leave the competition until 5 -6 o'clock at night and have you're drive time back to the school or hotel or wherever. I personally when I was in that sisuation I tried to sleep during the competion (in the bus), but that didn't always work either. The bus driver involved in this crash possibly shouldn't been driving at night, considering he had poor eyesight. Adding to the problem was the question of how tired he may or may not have been. I can speak from experience. Driving up on an overturned tractor trailer that is blocking the road in the middle of the night is bad enough when you're alert even worse when you're tired. In this incident the motorcoach crashed into the tractor trailers underside. Meaning the driver was looking at the bottom of the trailer and tractor. As mentioned earlier I came upon this same situation one night, and even being alert, I barely avvoided a bad situation.
This is a bad situation where people were killed. The driver from Whole Foods should have had his log current, that's where his biggest issue lies. Being five days behind is uncalled for. I'm no saint and have pushed things here and there in the past. Under my current job I don't have to, I get paid by the hour, and I'm barely getting eight hours a day anyway. Any job I look at now I make sure the company is compliant, because its not worth risking my income, or worse.
Drivers have to realize there are way too many ways now for DOT to go back and check you're location, activities, etc. And if they want to they will check every possible thing they can. What really mattered in this situation is the fatalites. Thats why they (DOT) dug as deep as they did.
Rules and regs should be changed for Passenger carry vehicles as well. I have been out of the motorcoach industry for several years now. I still have an itch to go back once in a while, but the money is not there. That's the other problem the Motorcoach industry faces... There are more and more older drivers, and very few younger ones. They best pay I've seen Is about 16 an hour. Most drivers are at 11 to 13 hr. When I first started driving motorcoaches it paid 8 Hr, granted that wis with a small company that only had four five buses. Theres alot of responsibility for very little pay. Younger people now are more interested in big bucks for little work.

[avc]

Yeah, you anti-union drivers wait until the Mexicans take 90% of the jobs like they have in the construction business, by then it will be way too late to change things.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by avc

Yeah Ghobo, I'm 50 yesterday !

Who taught the young kid to cook his log books ???

Well.... HAPPY BIRTHDAY.... ya old fart! :lol2:

I guess like me, you are getting into this business late in life. I'm almost 53 and have only been a trucker for about 4 years.

So, at YOUR advanced age, maybe you DO know a little something about work ethic. But, it is not the Oldtimers you should be angry with. Anybody old enough to have a "grandfathered" chauffeurs license, probably has stayed out of trouble!

The real problem is that trucking and construction compete for / employ the same workforce. With the housing market overbuilt, construction is WAY down. So, those guys have been flocking to trucking in the last few years. There are only SO many jobs in trucking, and many seasoned drivers are ahead of you right now because so many companies have gone under in this economy.

Hang in there, AVC. Look for smaller companies with REAL people to talk to! Get a personal invterview, and convince them of your "work ethic." It worked for ME!

As for who taught the kid to cook? Probably a guy with just a MONTH more experience than him! Everyone learns HOW within a short period of time. The real question is whether or not you DO "cook"???

[zipy46]

Originally Posted by avc

Yeah, you anti-union drivers wait until the Mexicans take 90% of the jobs like they have in the construction business, by then it will be way too late to change things.

Its too late to change it....Its already changed...

[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Orangetxguy said:



Where's the LINK???? Oh, and.... I don't think the NTSB recommended any charges. The Fed prosecutor and the grand jury did.



Without seeing the bus driver's logs, it is hard to tell if he was HOS compliant... yet with no actual mention of it, I assume he was. However, the articles clearly stated that this 78 yr old man (IMHO too old to be driving commercially) had not slept for 19 hours! An OLD MAN.... without even a nap in 19 hours??? And driving at 2 in the morning??? Without wearing the glasses required on his driver's license? I wouldn't get on THAT bus!



Absolutely NOT! But, unfortunately.... I agree with the NTSB that that factor probably had nothing to do with the accident.



Very possibly. However, to clear up a thing you assumed earlier on.... this was a CHARTER bus... not a SCHOOL bus. The driver may not even be from the area. IF this was an all day event, oftentimes bus drivers are taken to local hotels for a restbreak. I don't think this driver DID... and may not have needed it for his HOS. But, somehow.... he had not slept in 19 hours, was driving late into the night, and was too old to pull that off safely.



Quote:
The absence of lighting on the semitrailer truck and Rasmus' use of low-beam headlights made it difficult for him to see the overturned truck, the NTSB said. But his early problems with cataracts -- a key defense argument at the criminal trial -- most likely didn't affect the outcome of the crash, the NTSB said.
The NTSB also said that the bus, owned by Chippewa Trails, had out-of-adjustment brakes, but that probably didn't contribute to the accident.


Not sure which part confuses you. The truck was lying probably on its right side with cab near median. This shows the black - UNLIT - undercarriage of the trailer to the busdriver. I've seen these a few times myself, and they are like invisible at night!

As for his cataract problem (which MAY have been corrected but not changed on his license,) they DID say he was supposed to be wearing his glasses, but maybe his vision had been corrected. Regardless.... what the NTSB is saying is that, although there were other "factors" like the eyesight and the bad brakes, NEITHER of these factors contributed to, nor could have prevented, the accident. That's just kinda how they cover all bases.



Neither do I! Where's that link?

As Lowrange pointed out after reading your earlier links.... this driver was "out there." If you don't have time to touch a logbook for 5 days.... you are pushing it WAY too much! Apparently, he had time to do some line 5 the night before (not sure if they mean more than 24 hours before..) but not to even ATTEMPT to fabricate some logs???

Under those conditions, I don't care WHAT that bus driver's condition was... I can't believe the trucker got OFF on the manslaughter type charges!!

Note also that this driver was only about 22 at the time of the accident. Barely old enough to drive INTERSTATE commerce! Couldn't have been driving for very long!

There ya go, AVC..... I guess he really, really needed a job and had that special "work ethic" you were talking about!

I bet Whole Foods, facing multiple civil lawsuits, are taking names of seasoned VETS they can fire to make room for new drivers with better "work ethics" right NOW! :lol2:

My bad! The link I was refering to, about the NTSB, was on this web page, New charges in fatal Wisconsin school bus crash

and this particular link on that page,

Sept. 17, 2008: NTSB report counters what jury ruled

I was wrong...you are right. The prosecutor and grand jury brought charges, based on the NTSB report.

As for whether the bus was "Chartered", I don't see in the articles that it was.

In the one article, this accident was mentioned, that involved a Chartered bus;

Fatigue also was cited in felony charges filed against a bus driver in a fatal April crash on I-94 near Albertville involving the Pelican Rapids High School band. The charter bus company owner has said rest wasn't an issue.

I didn't pay to read the original story about the accident itself.

If you want you...you can copy and paste it here so we can already it! :thumbsup:

[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by zipy46

I talked to this fellow who works pulling tankers with dangerous chemicals on board...

They are tracked and monitored to make sure they run legal and compliant.

One time a fellow got hotheaded because they were late on his hometime and

he decided to 'make a run' for it so he could get home and out of the truck.

.......within 2 hours the State Patrol had him in custody.

Lowrange and I are both, part of this fellowship.

I drive legal because I can not afford to pay someone else, from my pocket. It is just a lot easier to be legal than not.

I sleep....because I enjoy sleeping! If I get tired...nap time is a pleasure.

[golfhobo]

If you want you...you can copy and paste it here so we can already it! :thumbsup:

Ok, Stan..... I hope you are logging this on line 5!! :lol2:

No, in at least ONE of the original articles you linked to, it was mentioned that the bus was owned by Chippewa Trails. That would be a CHARTER company.... not the "local" school district. That would make Mr. Rasmus a "cdl holding PROFESSIONAL driver" not just some guy who drove the school ACTIVITY bus.

As Cueball said, this was a MOTORCOACH, with a professional driver. And I might add that, although I have always driven "fast trucks" (anything over 70mph) I get passed by these guys all the time!

He was, no doubt, "flying low" on his way back to the hometown of the band that night, and apparently the truck crash was just SECONDS ahead of him, outside the distance of his low beams. But, I still say, an ALERT and younger driver, MIGHT have noticed the tail and running lights of the truck way up in the distance doing something erratic! Not enough evidence in all the stories to know for sure, but I think this was more of a "chain reaction" type accident. Probably nothing could have changed the outcome other than the trucker being rested enough to STAY ON THE ROAD!

Regardless of whether some of you/us want to "fudge" a little now and then, NONE of us should take the chance of FALLING ASLEEP at the wheel!

People DIE when we do that!

[golfhobo]

On a side note.... I want to say how much fun it is to have a conversation with you guys on these varied topics without every post I make having the usual "you are wrong" reply by a certain poster! :lol2:

I hope this "poster" is having as much fun as I am on this holiday!! :clap:

[avc]

Glad you are having fun G-Ho !!! :clap:

I think you are one of the better posters on the forum !!! :eek2: