[Useless]

I don't think that Redsfan is calling for the thread to be locked or deleted; His/Her (unsure here) statement is merely an observation that when a discussion degenerates into name calling and petty insults to the point where the true value of the topic has been diminished, that's when threads wind up being locked or deleted.

When threads involve issues of politics or religion, and especially when threads involve politics AND religion, this seems to become even more of a problem.

While I am no fan of Pres. Bush, I did vote for him in 2000. While I was certainly no fan of John Kerry, I did vote for him in 2004. I find my decisions in both cases to be regrettable. I also find that the choices offered me and the American people amounted to a beggar's crossroad; they lead to trouble in every direction.

As much as I detest Bush, Kerry's comment amounted to so much more than a botched joke; it was an unadulterated, unwarranted insult to the men and women who are risking their lives doing what they have been ordered to do.

What I find even more ironic is that it is the Republicans who are so vociferous in there condemnation of Kerry. The reason that I say that is that in making such an unmitigated jackass out of himself, Kerry has now done more to help strengthen the Republicans call to get voters to the polls than any Republican candidate, or for that matter, Pres. Bush himself!!

[GirlnamedShannon]

Originally Posted by Ardmore Farms Forever

Not truck related, so move it if you deem it necessary.......with elections coming up...........though maybe this could help others know where the parties stand.

Originally Posted by redsfan

I know why these types of posts are moved, locked or removed entirely, because we as people cannot debate politics or religion without it turning into a name-calling slugfest.

Originally Posted by Ardmore Farms Forever

Here you are, calling for this thread to be locked, removed entirely and/or moved.... Please don't think I'm singling you out, I'm not, it happens all the time.......on all types of boards, not just CAD...............as far as "name-calling", I haven't read the entire thread to give an opinion either way.

Originally Posted by Ardmore Farms Forever

"Candy azz" wimp azz Republicans.......but, in my opinion, only a fool or someone with a low comprehension ability can not read or see where your agenda lies by your own responses on this thread alone....if you were intellectually honest you might see it yourself

Originally Posted by yoopr

I know you probably don't know how to Read but there ARE WMD's in Iraq.....

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Typical response from a Republican....But then, YOU wouldn't know anything about FACTS, would you?....Keep drinking the Koolaid!

Originally Posted by NWRally

disingenuous, deceptive, self-serving & short-sighted as TODAY's Dems...

Originally Posted by mikey4069

because you must be high!!! or just stupid

Originally Posted by Useless

I don't think that Redsfan is calling for the thread to be locked or deleted; His/Her (unsure here) statement is merely an observation that when a discussion degenerates into name calling and petty insults to the point where the true value of the topic has been diminished, that's when threads wind up being locked or deleted.

Originally Posted by Longsnowsm

While I love a spirited conversation... Is there a reason this topic didn't get moved to the Off Topic areas of the forum?

My thoughts exactly Useless and Snowman; I don't see the value of this in the Help for New Drivers thread nor in the name calling in place of an actual discussion or debate.

[Ardmore Farms Forever]

Originally Posted by Useless

[color=blue]I don't think that Redsfan is calling for the thread to be locked or deleted; His/Her (unsure here) statement is merely an observation that when a discussion degenerates into name calling and petty insults to the point where the true value of the topic has been diminished, that's when threads wind up being locked or deleted.

Hell Useless...............I have an excuse, if I got the wrong impression..........I am "DOPED-UP", :lol: :lol:

Had this "Hernia Operation" yesterday and am totally BORED already...........Redsfan, if I misinterpreted your intentions, please accept my apology............I'm not my normal idiotic self. :lol: :lol:

I actually for a fleeting moment......thought of turning on the TV, then realized, I AIN'T that friggin bored. :lol: I hate watching TV, I find it a waste of time...............oh well.


Here's a POV from a man who has a personal interest in Kerry's excuse, I'm sorry, JOKE...........I cannot even imagine the pain this man felt when he heard him.

Originally Posted by Ronald R. Griffin

Mr. Griffin is the father of Spc. Kyle Andrew Griffin, a recipient of the Army Commendation Medal, Army Meritorious Service Medal and the Bronze Star, who was killed in a truck accident on a road between Mosul and Tikrit on May 30, 2003.

Shame on Him
John Kerry picked the wrong people to insult.

BY RONALD R. GRIFFIN
Friday, November 3, 2006 12:01 a.m. EST

I missed the joke. You must forgive me, for there just is not a lot of room in my life for even good jokes--and there is absolutely no room for "botched jokes"--when the subject of the joke is my son who was killed in Iraq. I know exactly what came out of Sen. John Kerry's mouth, and in those words there is no interpretation required. His attempt to convince us--and, I believe, to convince himself that that there was really a botched joke buried deep within his insult is in fact a reaffirmation of his ever-present condescending nature. He actually believes that we are stupid enough to agree with him and start laughing simply because he said it was a joke. Mr. Kerry said exactly what he meant and meant exactly what he said. In those words Mr. Kerry did in fact wash completely away the facade of his support of our magnificent troops and revealed for all to see his true colors.

All one had to do is look into the face of Mr. Kerry as the last word came out of his mouth, and it was painfully obvious that he knew that he had just disparaged the entire military. As the firestorm grew, the calls for an apology filled me with unease. It is not up to him to determine if an apology is in order. That decision most certainly rests with the millions of individuals he offended, and then they would decide if they were going to accept one or not.

As Sen. Kerry began his soon-to-be-reversed "I apologize to no one" rebuttal to a call for an apology, I was driving by the memorial built in honor of Kyle, my son, and the other fallen heroes from my town. As I listened, I tried unsuccessfully to make sense of the meteor shower of thoughts that were streaking through my mind. Then came one remembrance that brought all those other thoughts to an instantaneous halt. Last year I had written an editorial and I received a number of written replies. Among those was one postmarked from San Diego addressed simply to "the father of a hero" and my town of Emerson, N.J.

It started off friendly enough then quickly became argumentative and before the first paragraph was completed this individual had written, "I am glad that your son got killed for he probably was an idiot just like you". My first reaction, and really the only reaction I have ever had, was sadness for an individual who is so consumed with anger that he felt it necessary to lash out at me for my beliefs.

Entire Article

© Wall Street Journal

[Colin]

I already posted this once, but it was skipped over?

"You know, education. If you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you can do well, if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

The key word here is stuck.

Now, what if he had said:

"You know, education. If you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you can do well, if you don't, you get sent to Iraq."

Is there any difference? Any at all?

The second quote is an obvious slam against troops. The first is much more ambiguous and because of that, the scrum around him is in full force. If he wanted to demoralize the troops, wouldn't option two have been the better way to go?

[Colin]

Is it impossible that people have misinterpreted the comment?

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Colin

Is it impossible that people have misinterpreted the comment?

No, Colin!!

I don't think that anything here has been misinterpreted, it's just John Kerry in his grandest fashion.

Go back to Vietnam; he proudly held his record as a gun boat captain out, but then he claimed to have thrown his war medals out on The White House lawn during an anti-war demonstration. Later on, when it turned out that he still had those medals, he suddenly revised his statement, claiming to have thrown out other medals instead.

He voted for The Patriot Act, but when the truth about The Patriot Act became public knowledge, he backed away from that as well.

He supported sending troops to Iraq, and supported the military effort, until the real motives, and all of the chicanery behind them were exposed.

When asked what he would do if he were President, his answers essentially boiled down to "I'd have to ask Germany and France about what they think we should do".

Personally, I think that the decision to invade Iraq was ill conceived, and based upon deliberate deceit by The Bush administration, filled with hidden agenda, exorbitant profits for the economic elite, and executed with no regard to considering the long term consequences of our actions, or our ability to successfully carry out an exit strategy.

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell, (who was the mastermind of Operation Desert Storm back in 1991) saw it too, and that is, in large part, why he is no longer Secretary of State.

For those things, I fault The Bush Administration. But that in absolutely NO WAY serves as an indictment of the brave men and women who answered their military call, and are doing what they have been ordered to do.

It's one thing to hold The Bush Administration and The Republican Party in disdain; yet, for the life of me, I can not see Kerry's remarks could be interpreted as anything but a vile insult to our soldiers.

Sadly, while I do wish to see the Republicans stripped of power, I hold no illusions that the Democrats have any real solutions to offer.

[Colin]

But there is a huge difference between the words "stuck in" and "sent to".

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Colin

But there is a huge difference between the words "stuck in" and "sent to".

Sure, you are right about that, but there is still a serious problem with what Kerry said. I live in a part of the state with a very heavy military presence. I know many people who have been sent to Iraq. Many of them are military pilots and navigators, and they are at least as well educated as I am. (meaning that they have earned no less than a Master's degree, and that they are also very highly trained as well)

In any event, trying to correlate education and academic performance with the idea of being "sent to" Iraq, or being "stuck in" Iraq is, in my opinion, demeaning to the men and women who have done what their leaders ordered them to do. The troops who are over there now are hardly at liberty to say "I'm outta' here!! See ya' Later!!", so I just don't see the distinction between being "sent to" Iraq, or being "stuck in" Iraq.

Perhaps I'm missing something here, Colin, but I just can not see where there is any real difference. It may be that there is an angle, or a perspective coming into play here that I'm just not seeing.

BTW, if John Kerry had said "If you don't study hard and do well, you might wind up getting stuck as a recruiter for JB Hunt!!" I'm sure that the majority of drivers would be singing his praises!!!
:moose:

[Colin]

Originally Posted by Colin

But there is a huge difference between the words "stuck in" and "sent to".

Originally Posted by Useless

Sure, you are right about that, but there is still a serious problem with what Kerry said. I live in a part of the state with a very heavy military presence. I know many people who have been sent to Iraq. Many of them are military pilots and navigators, and they are at least as well educated as I am. (meaning that they have earned no less than a Master's degree, and that they are also very highly trained as well)

In any event, trying to correlate education and academic performance with the idea of being "sent to" Iraq, or being "stuck in" Iraq is, in my opinion, demeaning to the men and women who have done what their leaders ordered them to do. The troops who are over there now are hardly at liberty to say "I'm outta' here!! See ya' Later!!", so I just don't see the distinction between being "sent to" Iraq, or being "stuck in" Iraq.

Perhaps I'm missing something here, Colin, but I just can not see where there is any real difference. It may be that there is an angle, or a perspective coming into play here that I'm just not seeing.

The president has us stuck in Iraq.

Troops are sent to Iraq.

So, it being another hit on the president's lack of smarts (whether or not Bush had better grades 30 years ago; pre-cocaine addiction and DUI, btw) is how it's different.

By saying "If you don't do well in school, you're sent to Iraq" is the other side of the coin.

Is that anymore plain?

[Useless]

Okay, I think I see the point that you are making, Colin!!

If we still had the draft, as we did in Vietnam, then there would be SOME element of truth (however distasteful) to Kerry's remarks. Back in the 60's, college students could rely upon educational deferments to delay, or even avoid compulsory military service.

But the draft ended in the 1970's; there is no longer compulsory service as there once was. What this means is that the troops in Iraq joined the military voluntarily.

Many of the troops in Iraq are not highly educated, but many of the troops serving in Iraq ARE well educated. Consequently, I simply can not tie the notion of academic performance to the notion of being "sent to" or "stuck in" Iraq.

The other problem that I have is that Kerry has spent much of his political carreer back peddling. It seems that his greatest needs to clarify his statements come at a time when people understood all too well what it was that he said in the first place!!