Originally Posted by roadhog

i don't understand how destroying the us free market system, and fundamentally transforming it into a marxist government, will somehow solve the corruption which has caused our economic problems. It is my opinion, most of our social problems are the fault of liberalism. I'm still waiting for an intelligent argument which may enlighten me otherwise.

Our problems are caused by the very free market system that you so idolize. As for social problems, witness the breakdown of the family, caused by the necessity of both adults in most households being forced to work so they can have enough income to support the consumerist lifestyle necessary to enrich the corporations that control almost every aspect of our lives.

It is the unregulated free market system that has brought us enron, aig, bernie madoff, the tech bubble, the housing bubble, $5.00 per gallon diesel and many of the other wonderful things we have experienced lately. How much will it take to convince you that it doesn't work?

in my opinion, our us government, financial institutions, and big bussiness are intertwined and completely corrupt, and the root cause of most of our problems. I have argued how both the left and right administrations have become so far left of center, that this liberalism has been ripping our country to pieces.

Your first sentence is absolutely correct & i couldn't agree more. What i don't understand is how you can blame this on liberalism. Republicans are no longer conservative. Democrats are no longer liberal. Both parties are the employ of the corporate oligopolies who are actually running things. There are so few real liberals left in this country that you probably wouldn't recognize one if it came up & peed on your shoe.

since obama took office, government has expanded tremendously, trampling the us constitution, and systemactically destroying our ecomnomy and our republic. With their arrogance they will outright lie and ram ideology down the throats of the majority of americans who have voiced their dissent to no avail. We are no longer a democracy. It appears more and more like a dictatorship, and gaining speed. I can see now, why chavez was humping obama's leg with such a silly expression.

Under Bush about 70,000 (that's seventy thousand) pages were added to the code of federal regulations each year. The Bush administration introduced literally thousands of economically significant regulations, and you can bet your azz they all benefited his wealthy friends at the expense of working taxpayers. During his first for years in office he added over 300 billion (in constant dollars) to the federal budget. He bungled Katrina, he blew it in Iraq. He inherited a budget surplus and gave it away to the already wealthy

And you have the temerity to complain about Obama?

Obama inherited an economy from bush that was on the verge of total collapse. It was Bush who took away our civil rights with warrantless searches, stripping us of our right of habeas corpus and destroying our economy by allowing the financial industry to stage a virtual coup and seize de facto power of our entire government.

i believe a socialist government will only insulate corruption between the powers further, and actually make things much worse. A socialist government eventually strips it's society of rights, freedoms and liberties, in order to control any dissention. We've been witnessing plenty of that lately right here in america.

It seems to me that what you're describing here is exactly what Bush was trying to do. It was Bush who brought us the Dept. Of Homeland Security. (IMHO he should have just cut to the chase & called it "Fatherland") it was Bush who tried to take away our right of habeas corpus. It was Bush who authorized torture. It was Bush who created the insane climate of fear in our country. Bush through these actions & many others was far more active in seeking to quash dissent than Obama ever will be.

And you keep ranting about socialism. Do you understand that socialism is an economic system, not a political one? Socialism is compatible with a variety of political systems and probably works best in a participatory democracy.

the corruption under obama's administration won't be saturated any greater than it already is. We've seen most every politician today, prove themself to be a liar, with no sense of responsibility or trust for which they were elected, and will do anything to remain in power. We somehow have to remove all of these people from office from both sides of the isle, and establish term limits. This is our government, and they work for us! We have to make this government fear the people. We saw signs of that already with the town meetings and rallys. You better believe, they feared us for the first time, and i pray we take this republic back!

Unfortunately what has happened, the obama administration is only getting craftier, and more decietful in promoting their agenda, and still utterly failing the american people, for the sake of their ideology. Just look at how many marxist and communists we have right in the white house advising obama. Not one politician writes the bills, nor even reads them. They are written by said advisors, lawyers, and lobbyists. The us constitution is 13 pages long. There is no sane reason for a health tax bill to be 2000+ pages of crap opening doors to corruption and control over every aspect of your life. They will pass a watered down version of this utterly insane bill. With 2000+ pages, they can alter it to any shape they desire later, and they will. Even the watered down version, will once again increase the size of government further.

I would really like to hear a liberal point of veiw, explaining how they believe the direction our government is heading, will somehow solve this corruption at the top. Also, please explain, why we are not simply fixing our problems, instead of creating bigger ones, by expanding failed systems, and creating more spending entitlements and higher taxes, when our economy is near collapse. You complain about capitalism, but please show how a socialist government will give us anything but corruption, with class warfare, picking the winners and loosers.

Conservatives and independents have been witnessing complete arrogant radical liberal ideology at the expense of our most important problems. Maybe liberals could take some reality into account, and explain some of this insanity.

Enron, Madoff, AIG, the war on terror, the war on drugs, Halliburton, KBR, suspension of habeas corpus, American ceo's earning 22 times what their Japanese counterparts earn while they send their employees jobs overseas. Spending 40% more per capita on health care than any other nation and getting no measurable benefit from the additional expenditure. Becoming the largest debtor nation in the history of the planet.

Those are just a few of the things created by the conservative ideology of free markets at any cost. Those are the very things that liberalism would try to protect us from.

We've basically had the conservatives in control for about 20 of the past 25 years. It absolutely amazes me that after leading us into this mess all you people can do is mindlessly attack anyone who who is willing to try to lead us out of it

Originally Posted by LightsChromeHorsepower

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Originally Posted by Glad Hand

It’s all pretty easy really. If you naively believe that Islam is really a religion of peace and that the vast overwhelming majority of the world’s Muslims are peaceful, moderate, and perfectly compatible with Western civilization, then at the same time you ought to be able to provide a reasonable explanation why non-Muslims living inside peaceful Muslim countries where the majority of the world’s so-called moderate and peaceful Muslims live without exception are always treated as second class dhimmis and are always harshly oppressed and discriminated against by the so-called moderate and peaceful Muslims living in those countries in every case.

You should also be able to point to several non-Muslim countries located anywhere in the world that borders Muslim countries and that at the same time are able to live in peace and harmony side-by-side next door with their bordering Muslim neighbor.

In addition, you should also be able to provide a reasonable explanation why every non-Muslim country in the world that has allowed Muslims to migrate and immigrate in mass has also inevitably become the victims of Islamic terrorist attacks and why at the same time in other Non-Muslim countries where Muslims have not yet migrated and immigrated in mass in stark contrast to the aforementioned have yet to become the victim of Islamic terrorist attacks.

Lastly, you should also be able to provide a reasonable explanation why in every non-Muslim country in the world where Muslims have migrated and immigrated to in mass the majority of the Muslim immigrants have always refused to assimilate and integrate and eventually once the population of Muslims became sufficient created Muslim no go zones that are ruled and governed by Islamic Sharia Law and in direct contravention to the laws of the state in which they now reside.

Therefore, if anyone can provide reasonable explanations to all of the above, then it would be perfectly clear that Islam is truly a religion of peace and that the vast overwhelming majority of the world’s Muslims really are peaceful and moderate Muslims and thus are perfectly compatible with Western civilization.

On the other hand, if no reasonable explanations for the above can be provided, then it would indicate that any country that allows Muslims to migrate and immigrate in mass is playing a fool’s game because they are in effect enabling a 5th column to infiltrate inside their own countries.