Fozzy said:

Again, you make some valid points. But, you live in southern OK, right? That's almost Texas! Can you see a bunch of cowboys in a bar with a gun strapped on, having too many beers, and settling their arguments over a woman with a gunfight? :roll:

Oh... you wouldn't allow law abiding drunks to have a gun in a bar? Well, then why would you allow a kid who isn't even shaving yet to have one on a college campus? :shock:

If we go with YOUR plan, there might be less instances of 30 people being gunned down at one time. But, there would be 30 instances of 2 people being shot dead. That's a 2 to 1 ratio in favor of gun control! :lol:

You want to replace bloody knuckles with bloddy bodies! I can't see the advantage. You ever been to Jersey??? Or Miami?? More Americans would be killed in the CROSSFIRE alone!! :roll:

 

Gregg said:

Well, in fact VA state police were on scene of the first murders along with the local sheriffs department. While the Univ PD is a fully sanctioned department, they are in no way able to handle such crimes as double murder. My late father was Chief of Police for the Ventura County Community College District Police. Any major crimes were turned over to the Ventura County Sheriff's Dept., Ventura Police or Oxnard Police depending on what campus the crime occured.

Maybe a team or two were there, NOT the full force that responded to the Norris bldg. And in fact, much of the time was wasted doing just THAT, turning it over to the local police, while searching for a gunman they ASSUMED had left campus! My point was that the FULL force of responding LEO's were NOT on the scene within the first hour following the double murder. And THOSE were "out of position" to respond to Norris Bldg, and the REST showed up and responded with all due speed, but not soon enough! NOW is your question answered?

Secondly, from the timelines I've seen, the suspect began shooting students at 9:15. Police were not notified until 9:45. All shooting stops at 9:50. How is it that not one person in that whole building did not call 911 for an entire 30 minutes? A deranged man is shooting students for 30 minutes an NO ONE calls 911? Either the police/university is not releasing an accurate timeline to save their butts or the entire landline and cell towers were down. I just don't buy it.

Or you're not hearing the news reports/press conferences I heard while on the road this week. SEVERAL students called 911 as soon as the shooting started! I have not heard the exact moment/recording of the first 911 call, but I PROMISE you, it was not 30 minutes after the shooting began! It makes no difference. NO state police unit could have reached that bldg in less than 20 to 30 minutes! Personally, I go with your theory that the police have not given the correct timeline to cover their butts! If a call came in immediately, you'd think the police ON CAMPUS, would have responded in less time. But, SURVIVOR accounts are that they called 911 on their cellphones immediately. I personally don't think the rampage lasted 30 minutes! It was all over and done with in less than 15 minutes TOPS! NO ONE could have gotten there in time!

I was just answering your question as to why the cops didn't/couldn't get there in time to "engage" and stop the killer.

 

Let's assume there is some magical attribute to being 21. First, then one shouldn't be allowed to VOTE or GO TO WAR until they are 21.

We BOTH know that, a person who has decided to serve the country as a policeman (or soldier) has a higher level of intelligence, maturity and dedication at 21, than any college student who is still partying, and "searching" for their calling in life.

They have either graduated college, or went thru alternate methods with the PURPOSE in mind of being an LEO. They are rookies, yes, but they are more mature. NO ONE just graduates from college one day, and the next decides to be a police officer!

By the time I was 21, I was in the military, and risking my life in a combat position, by my choice.

The average college student, has NO IDEA on the day of their graduation, what they will do with their lives. "Daddy" is still paying the bills, and they probably haven't even filed a tax return yet.

If this event shows us nothing ELSE, it should confirm my belief that college students are not yet ADULTS, with the mindset needed to face reality and life with a MATURE attitude. Therefore..... I don't think they should be allowed to own GUNS!

I am not against CCW permits for "established" mature adults, who are making their way in life, probably with a family and a mortgage, but I am ADAMANTLY against allowing them for STUDENTS, who are by definition, still in a LEARNING institution.

Blanket rules? How about this? Anyone, of any age, who is enrolled in a police academy (or military service) at any age, is receiving the training necessary to allow him to carry a gun, concealed or not.

Anyone, who has NOT attained the age of at least 21, or is STILL enrolled in college, is not yet a "responsible adult" and SHALL not be given a permit to own a gun - period!

Sounds easy enough to me.... and even Bill O'Reilly believes in such COMPROMISES!

 

Good point. I am tired of people saying that I'm not a GOOD American because I don't own a gun! Conservatives seem to have a problem discerning the difference between a right and an obligation!

And, I am sorry that the question of gun control comes up everytime some NUT (who HAS a gun) kills a bunch of people! But.... perhaps, it wouldn't come up if the NUT didn't HAVE a gun! :roll:

 

Well, Sheep, I guess I'll start with you.

A gun control law that forbids ownership by a STUDENT at a college or high school MIGHT have prevented it. Especially, if they had access to his mental records, and AT LEAST a 7 day waiting period. And, let's do away with buying guns by mail! The system failed us here! This young man should NEVER have been allowed to buy a gun! Might he have stolen one or two? Yes. But, not if they weren't so easy to find and steal!

Allowing guns on campus, MAY have prevented THIS shooting.... but most likely would have led to many MORE shootings by adolescents pissed off at a classmate! They are KIDS!!

I think you are DREAMING when you think that some unknown college student is gonna be carrying a gun to class, and would use it to stop a mass killer.

You are asking our CHILDREN to arm themselves and go to class expecting to "fast gun" down a raging killer. Not likely. Truth is, most of them don't have the guts! ONE student with the guts, could have rushed CHO and broke his neck in one quick motion! Probably would have DIED for his valor..... but would have stolen the news lead!

Asking, or expecting, our students to arm and protect themselves, in lieu of security forces doing their jobs, is the first step in the downfall of our society, and would lead only to a paranoid chaos!

Some people are SO invested in PRO GUN rhetoric, they cannot see the reality of the world they espouse. Will you arm Middle Schoolers next? How about Kindergarteners? :roll:

 

Sylvan said:

Sylvan, either you are of a younger generation than me, one who played video games about KILLING people for sport or revenge....

Or there really IS a difference in the way PRO gun conservative kids are brought up from the REST of us!

My childhood was MUCH like yours! But it NEVER entered my mind to KILL people, or get a gun and SHOOT people, to avenge my sorry state in life!

I was ostracized, criticized, and alienated! Teased, tortured, bullied, and even beaten up! And NEVER did I think up a scenario like Columbine!

I THINK we're of the same generation, so what is the difference? Were you raised around GUNS? I'm NOT trying to be insulting. I just don't understand how ANYONE of MY generation could have Columbine thoughts!!!

When "I" grew up, we solved problems with FISTS! And I wasn't REAL happy about having to do THAT!

It may sound simple to some of you, but I can ONLY find a few variables to show how someone grows up to be a killer like CHO....

Video games that glorify killing... and desensitizes our youth.

Or GUNS.

Or more testosterone than brains.

I'm really trying to understand this! I suffer from depression, and fit the profile of one like CHO to some degree. But YOUR words SCARE the HELL out of me!

Help me understand how ANYONE has thoughts of mass murder like you say you had!

 

The only gun law that has ever worked.

Kennesaw GA. A city law requires EVERY ADULT to own a gun in their home. Since 1980 when then law was put in place it has one of the lowest violent crime rates in the country. Also its not too far from atlanta which has one of the highest violent crime rates in the country.
A little side note: Since the law was passed NOT ONE CHILD HAS ACCIDENTLY BEEN SHOT WITH A GUN. And since 1980 when the law was passed, there has only been one shooting in the city.

And for those who said we should have a waiting period? WRONG.
A little personal story that happened to me. About 6 years ago, when I was not making that great of money, I lived in a "not so nice" neighborhood. I woke up one night to hear my 6 year old son screaming in his bedroom. I ran in there and saw my son laying on the floor bleeding and holding his face. It seemed the 12 year old boy accross the street thought it would be funny to hide in the bushes and play sniper with his pellet gun and shot my son in the face through his window. I went outside found the kid hiding in the bushes grabbed him by the hair and drug him in my house and called the cops. Pressed charges on the little creep. It wasnt just a little pellet gun injury, the pellet lodged in his sinuses and required surgery to get it out.
Part two of the story: While the cops were there the little monsters drunk trashy dad came out and started trouble. Making threats that he was going to kill me and my whole family right in front of the cops. So bammo, drunk dad is going to jail for terroristic threatening. The next morning the arresting officer came back to my house and informed me that he didnt think this was over with my neighbor and they could only hold him for so long. He would be out on bond soon. He asked me flat out if I owned a gun. I do have guns but only deer rifles and a 22. So I went out that day to buy a handgun. Did the instant check and an hour later had a handgun. Two nights later my son comes running down and said he heard something outside. I grabbed my gun and caught my drunk neighbor on the roof of my garage carrying a baseball bat. I drew a bead on the bastard and he climbed down. I held him on the ground at gunpoint until the cops came. ( with a few kicks to the face, just for good measure) He was arrested and got 15 years in prison. The cops said the only thing I did wrong was NOT shoot him. Because he was holding a baseball bat and trying to break into my house, I could have shot him. OH well, maybe next time.
THE POINT.....BEING ABLE TO BUY A GUN INSTANTLY SAVED MY FAMILIES LIFE. Criminals dont care about waiting periods. Criminals dont care about gun laws.

 

The following PD agencies are located in or around VT:

Virginia Tech PD- 30 Sworn Officers
Virginia State Police- Unknown number
Blacksburg Police- 55 Sworn Officers
Montgomery County Sheriff- 44 Patrol Deputies
Christiansburg PD(8 miles away)- 35 Patrol Officers

Now let's assume a quarter of these officers were on duty. That would make 41 officers on duty, not including State Police since I could not find a number for that district. Even if the shooting lasted 15 minutes and not 30, officers should have immeadiatly entered the building to locate and take out the shooter. This is what every police agency has learned and taught since Columbine. You cannot wait outside with an active shooter inside. Every second that is wasted outside is one more victim. The ball was dropped somewhere. The national average for a 911 response is around 7-8 minutes. In a college setting and also a small town setting I'm sure it is much lower. I would say officers should have arrived on scene within 4-5 minutes.

 

 

Greg, I am all but Quoting from the Chief of Police (or whomever was giving the news conferences this week...)

Cho bought the 22 cal from an online gun shop in Michigan (I think), paid for it by credit card, and picked it up at a local (Virginia) PAWN SHOP, where it was mailed/shipped to.

Not terribly important, since he also bought the Glock in person. Besides, he did everything legally. But, that's the problem. The system failed us in many ways. This troubled man should NEVER have been able to buy a gun, period.