Yeah, I thought it was a nicely deserved smack in the face to NBC when the families cancelled their interview with them. NBC is trying to play off the idea that it was the right thing to do to show inside this sicko's mind. But people are wising up to the media and simply turning the channel.

Sorry, but that just doesn't work in this situation. A recruiter doesn't have any decisions to make on driving that truck. Their decision in hiring is far removed from that driver being on the road and as long as the recruiter did everything he was supposed to do in the hiring process, he has done all he is required to do. In the case of the president of the university, he had the ability to make a decision. He chose not to send the warning out for 2 hours. It was a decision that HE alone made and in doing so, he failed to do all he was required to do. In the end, he was actively involved in the welfare of those students, whereas a recruiter is not actively involved in the welfare of those people around the truck driver.

Your other examples, unfortunately happen far too often. It's a black eye to the justice system, to be sure, but it's still not on the same plane that I am arguing and that's where we are not seeing eye-to-eye.

I think where we are differing is that tou are arguing blame, I am arguing responsbility. I think we both agree that the shooter is to blame, bottom line. But I am also arguing that the university president had a responsbility to his students and he failed it. Again, you may not agree with that assessment, but that's where I am coming from. And I think that in the end, that failure will lead to his ouster.

 

I understand where you are coming from however I just dont agree. Sometimes you have to take something to the extreem to make a point. An extreem example of what i feel you are doing with the President of the University.
Being that I am one of those "pro gun" nutsos...I could take your position of blame to my extreem. I could say the President of the university is at fault because he didnt have armed guards with fully automatic weapons in every classroom. So in turn, he didnt do everyting he could have done to save those kids. FIRE HIM!

 

By the way...the example I used about a recruiter hiring someone who killed a person happened to me for real. A few years back, I hired a driver with a perfectly clean record and a few months after I hired him, he killed two people while on drugs. And for awhile, I felt like I was going to be blamed. I had meeting after meeting to see if there was anything I could have done to recognize he was a problem driver. It was hell, and I hope you dont ever have to go through it.

 

I'm pro-gun, too. Automatic rifles would work 8)

Sorry to hear about the driver. It's tough and trust me when I say that I can empathize. :?

 

I would like to know one thing. Why didn't the LEO's enter the building ASAP to take out the shooter? From the student interviews it sounds like the suspect had been shooting for some time. If the Chief of Police gets fired, it will be because his officers didn't engage the suspect. There shouldn't have been a lack of LEO's on campus, due to the fact they were investigating a fresh double murder!

This incident just reinforces the reason I have a CCW. The police are not here to protect. They are here to respond after the fact.

 

Wow! What a thread! As always, I've read the entire thing before engaging. I will have much more to say, especially to Sheepdancer and Twilight Batman! But, it will take most of the night. For now....

Greg, If you had heard all the newsconferences by the VATech police, they responded to Norris bldg immediately after receiving the 911 call about the shooting. The doors were chained shut. They breached the doors within ONE minute and climbed to the second floor where the shooting ocurred. Upon reaching the second floor, within minutes since the shooting began, the shooting STOPPED. Cho had done his deed and killed himself BEFORE they arrived.

The Campus police were investigating the double murder on the FAR side of the campus (probably part of his plan / deception.) The STATE police could not have gotten there in time to stop it, and were, in fact, running hell bent for leather to respond.

There WAS, in fact, a shortage of police on campus at the time, because the VATech police force is an accredited force, and did not need to immediately call in local or state police to investigate the dormitory shooting. The "diversion" probably drew the majority of the force to the opposite end of the campus, and NONE of them could have gotten to the Norris Bldg in time.

Does that answer your question?

 

Fozzy: I don't completely AGREE with your statement/position, but I can see your points. Fact is, every day, in every walk of life, we are ALL helpless and unarmed, yet we "generally" feel secure. The police are here ALSO to prevent crimes, they just can't be everywhere. Your point about what the wackos believe about the unarmed masses, is well taken, but it also applies to malls, amusement parks, subways, and every other aspect of our society.

But, to answer your question, that I highlited, I believe you are assuming that the Wild West was a peaceful and JUST time in our history. Fact is, MANY innocent people were gunned down over an argument about a beer, or a woman, or such.... because anyone could carry a gun, and felt "empowered" to use it to settle any and all arguments. Road rage is a recent phenomenon, but would be totally "chaotic" if everyone carried a gun! Cho was, in all respects, a "law abiding" citizen, who bought his guns legally. And I doubt you would disagree that he should NOT have had them.

College students, with raging testosterone, and limited maturity, should NOT BE ARMED! Too many arguments would be settled with gunpowder! Arming teachers is a different subject, but I'm not sure it's the answer. Besides, if you're going to arm them, why make it a CCW? Just let them swing their uzi's around while writing on the chalkboard! :roll:

But, do we REALLY want to go there? Will they get "combat pay?"

I'm sorry, but YOUR solution is purely "reactionary." And both MY ancestors AND YOURS, have decided that is NOT the type of society we want.

For the record, and to avoid any drawn out arguments, I am for gun CONTROL..... NOT for taking away your guns! I am not against CCW laws either in theory or in general. I just want those permits to be HEAVILY controlled.... and NEVER would I allow a college student to have one. IMHO, they are not YET mature, responsible adults.

 

It appears your thread was hijacked. And I will contribute to that. But, I want to give you credit for your thoughts and intentions.

Unfortunately, I an neither shocked nor stunned by these events. They have become commonplace and expected in our society. That is sad.

I, too, send my prayers and thoughts to the families of the victims. But, I feel it is necessary to discuss the events in hopes that we might somehow preclude more of the same.

I am SO impressed by the actions, thoughts, words and maturity of the students at VATech!! I wish them all the best that they can glean from what's left of their lives!

Let's GO, HOKIES, Let's GO!!

 

Well, in fact VA state police were on scene of the first murders along with the local sheriffs department. While the Univ PD is a fully sanctioned department, they are in no way able to handle such crimes as double murder. My late father was Chief of Police for the Ventura County Community College District Police. Any major crimes were turned over to the Ventura County Sheriff's Dept., Ventura Police or Oxnard Police depending on what campus the crime occured.

Secondly, from the timelines I've seen, the suspect began shooting students at 9:15. Police were not notified until 9:45. All shooting stops at 9:50. How is it that not one person in that whole building did not call 911 for an entire 30 minutes? A deranged man is shooting students for 30 minutes an NO ONE calls 911? Either the police/university is not releasing an accurate timeline to save their butts or the entire landline and cell towers were down. I just don't buy it.

 

Minimum age for police officers is 21. The mass influx of new police officers are right at college aged. I am not saying there's some validity to your argument, but it needs to be a case by case situation and not blanket rules. :wink: