Slimland is Back!! Debate and discussion!!
#61
09-02-2006, 09:46 AM
Essentially I'm saying that my belief system is as good as yours. If you find that offensive, then you are being a bigot.
I was speaking about a local event, such as in a laboratory.
I found this: It can be shown from the laws of thermodynamics that absolute zero can never be achieved, though it is possible to reach temperatures arbitrarily close to it through the use of cryocoolers. This is the same principle that ensures no machine can be 100% efficient. But let me be the first to call of this discussion of thermodynamics; there are people far more qualified than I to discuss such things.... :lol:
YOUR metaphysical philosophy is also an anthropomorphized visualization of YOUR philosophical system:
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Brang it On!
#62
09-02-2006, 10:16 AM
Originally Posted by Aligator
I am not in the least offended by whatever it is that you believe. In fact, I don't even know what your belief is.
My belief system? Uhmm . . . I believe that God created evolution. That way I get to piss off everybody.
My understanding is that if absolute zero were reached anywhere it would take all the energy available in the universe. I found this: It can be shown from the laws of thermodynamics that absolute zero can never be achieved, though it is possible to reach temperatures arbitrarily close to it through the use of cryocoolers. This is the same principle that ensures no machine can be 100% efficient.
But let me be the first to call of this discussion of thermodynamics; there are people far more qualified than I to discuss such things.... :lol:
Afraid you'll have to make a case for me there, Mudaka. The case for an anthropomorphic christian god, I believe, is well established. Do you agree? Or no? :?
In your philosophical system you state that ego is a fault. In your visualization of God, the fault of ego is canceled out by more positive elements of consciousness, resulting in a perfect being, free from faults -- or rather, being in balance. Seen from outside your philosophy, this is pretty much the process of visualizing a perfect being, and thus, creating a religion, complete with your notion of which human characteristics a god should have (i.e., no ego) and which characteristics a human should thus aspire to. Ergo, your visualization of God is rooted in your culture and anthropomorphized preconceptions. Even the "cellular model" of your god's elements (living things) presupposes a being much like ourselves, made up of more primitive living elements, or cells. You have humanized him.
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Non stupidus fetifico
#63
09-02-2006, 02:13 PM
Ok this might be off topic but I have a question.
If somebody that has been bad all there life gets down on there knees and excepts Jesus as there savior then goes back to being bad do they still go to Heaven?
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#64
09-02-2006, 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by Fozzy
Don't even try to twist this around with me Fozzy, you know what I meant by that. I am not one of these newbies that get intemidated by your arguments of confusion and anger.
People of Judah shout and God helps them kill 500,000 people God slaughters 70 men for looking into the ark God has the earth swallow people God drowns almost everyone on earth God orders and joins in on the genocide of all of Canaan God threatens people with having to eat their children?s flesh Sons of Levi are blessed for randomly slaughtering cow worshippers God kills all the Egyptian babies for Pharaoh?s stubbornness God kills the meat eaters God allows people to sacrifice their babies to him to teach them a lesson God kills a man for not impregnating his sister-in-law God comes out of the sky to kill David?s enemies God allows babies to be dashed and pregnant women to be ripped open God threatens to have wild animals carry away the Israelite?s children God tells people to kill their loved ones if they worship other gods Bible says beat your child with a rod Bible says beating and wounding people is good for them God promises to punish children for their parent?s sin God terrifies and causes tumors Jesus doesn?t allow a disciple to bury his dead father God rewards Jacob for deceiving his dying father ????????????????????????- Supposedly the people of Judah shouted and God helped them kill 1/2 million Israelites. (2 Chr 13:15 NRSV) Then the people of Judah raised the battle shout. And when the people of Judah shouted, God defeated Jeroboam and all Israel before Abijah and Judah. (2 Chr 13:16-18 NRSV) The Israelites fled before Judah, and God gave them into their hands. Abijah and his army defeated them with great slaughter; five hundred thousand picked men of Israel fell slain. Thus the Israelites were subdued at that time, and the people of Judah prevailed because they relied on the LORD, the God of their ancestors. On the next paragraph or point, I'll just have to give up, I honestly do not know what your saying or asking. To me you are just trying to argue what shade of gray the cat is.
Ok Fozzy- Lets talk about this-- You dislike organized religion, is that better? But that is not the subject at the time!
But lets make it the subject! Side note:This is what I was talking about, we have had this discussion back in febuary, and I though we had some common ground on this! I too do not like organized religion made by man, I have even stated that I believe it was a downfall at one point. But I see a diffrence, between a belief and a Idea of what God is and art to be.
If you want to go deeper on this subject we can, lets just keep it civil. We have had to many threads locked down, and then we have to go over the same things, just to get to the point of moving on, then "BAMM" a comment it mad that is out of line and then it is locked and You and I have been know to be the Blame. And I don't know about you, but I have always enjoyed your point of view! and Respect it. Even if I don't agree with it.
How is asking you this question, mean What you replied? Dont read into things Fozzy! It was a simple question.
As for a crutch, if this is the case on my part then so be it. Because as you said, yes I am weak, vile, disgusting, there is nothing good in my flesh, for either night or day, wether asleep or awake, My Flesh is filled with nothing but unrighteousness and sinful thinking, but my inward man stands in the promisses of God, Knowing that He gave His life for me. So that "He that believe in me though he is dead, Yet shall he live".
So why don't you answer the question, so that maybe you can bring something or an Idea to the table, other than a dislike for religious mumbo jumbo! Again, this is obviously unanswerable/understandable to you. Deism if you can call that a religion and buddhism as a philisophy is what I'm closest to in a "belief" system. But I still do not lock myself (or society for that matter) into a locked box. I never denied that God hasn't killed anyone, matter of fact I stated
Why-I do believe in Divers times this is correct! For resons I do not believe or think you would understand, but in the end it still boils down to man, making the discission.
:lol:
This is the main issue, you seem to think that Christianity is not man made. I however do not believe that there is a religion that is NOT man made.
You keep asking it, and I keep answering it. The fact that you cannot accept it seems to be the problem. The reality is that I do not define what I believe into a box with handles on it.
And I respect that!
What tends to set me off is when history is ignored or excused based on people's belief systems. People want to delineate between the deaths and murder of past religious armies and today's deaths and murders over a belief system. To see any difference in the two or to deny the past is just a sham! Just as in any "recovery" program, a person has to admit that there is a problem to begin with. It seems to me that the quasi-religious cannot and will not even recognize their own religion's past evil and pain to other humans.
To me, this is the main problem with your choice of religions. When the main idea of the premise of the religion is that there is nothing on this earth that is good, and the only way to end up "good" is to die and hopefully end up somewhere else is just not too far removed (to me anyway) than the idea of the whole "72 virgins" promise from the other religion. To me any idea that says that you have to die to improve yourself or to get the big prize is just sad. You seem to see a difference in the these, I do not.
AS for dying to improve, I do not believ this, for I as in my spirit, am complet in Jesus Christ. But right now the flesh wars against the spirit. In all actuality, this is good, because it shows, that more reliance on Christ is needed. and it shows the Grace of God.
Again, this is obviously unanswerable/understandable to you. Deism if you can call that a religion and buddhism as a philisophy is what I'm closest to in a "belief" system. But I still do not lock myself (or society for that matter) into a locked box.
Thank you for FINALY answering, Inquiering minds! And I do understand the God in a Box.
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You can twist perceptions Reality won't budge You can raise objections I will be the judge And the jury Neil Peart
#65
09-02-2006, 02:25 PM
Ok this might be off topic but I have a question.
If somebody that has been bad all there life gets down on there knees and excepts Jesus as there savior then goes back to being bad do they still go to Heaven?
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#66
09-02-2006, 02:36 PM
Originally Posted by MACK
Ok this might be off topic but I have a question.
If somebody that has been bad all there life gets down on there knees and excepts Jesus as there savior then goes back to being bad do they still go to Heaven? Now can a true Christian do bad things, yep we are human also, but like anyone else we are subject to the rudiments of the world and laws.
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You can twist perceptions Reality won't budge You can raise objections I will be the judge And the jury Neil Peart
#67
09-02-2006, 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by MACK
Ok this might be off topic but I have a question.
If somebody that has been bad all there life gets down on there knees and excepts Jesus as there savior then goes back to being bad do they still go to Heaven? I think the condition to which you refer is called apostasy (checking the dictionary . . . here it is . . . apostasy |??p?st?s?| noun the abandonment or renunciation of a religious or political belief. ORIGIN Middle English : from ecclesiastical Latin apostasia, from a late Greek alteration of Greek apostasis ?defection.? The way I had it explained to me is as follows: state 1) You don't get saved, you better not die. state 2) You get saved, and take a new fork in the road. Its all uphill, but in the end that's where you want to be, right? state 3) You make mistakes. Congratulations, you are human. Try -- I mean really try -- not to let it happen again. Though you are forgiven, you are still responsible for your mistakes and bad choices and must pay for them in this life AND explain yourself to God in the next. I don't know about you, but forgiven or not, I'm not looking forward to that event in my existence (how do you explain yourself to someone who knows your actions and motives better than you do?) Your growth in this area will be slow and painful. If you begin to show progress -- no matter how slow (it may take decades) -- it is evidence that you were sincere when you were saved and therefore really were saved. Rejoice in that, then put your nose back to the grindstone. state 4) apostasy: if you give up and lose hope and faith, and decide that its too hard or not for you or why can so and so get away with all those notches in his little black book but not you, or maybe you think you aren't good enough for God to love you (that's the one that tripped me up for 20 years) then you may renounce God and become an apostate. This is a conscious act, a willful rejection of God, and I've heard its unforgivable, but only after you have been saved. I've also heard it IS forgivable -- I'm still looking for something in the Bible to back all this up (and therefore need the help of some better Christians than myself on this one.) Note that I say this is a willful, often vocal, rejection of God -- not mere backsliding, which is something that is to be expected, just as a child falls down a bunch of times before he learns to walk. If you went back to being bad, ask forgiveness, then prove that your repentance is real by forgiving others who have done things to you that by all rights, should not be forgiven. Its tough, but in the end it becomes a form of freedom that is unexplainable until you experience it. Also what Slimland said is true: after a time your desires change, and what you want is to do good things rather than bad. Things get easier after that, but its still work. One last thing, this may sound selfish, but ask God to bless you every day. Think of it this way: you have a child, and you want the best for him that you can provide. Which makes you happier, if the child accepts your provision with a happy smile, or rejects it, saying he isn't good enough? Asking God for his blessing is acceptance of his gifts for you.
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Non stupidus fetifico
#68
09-02-2006, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by mundaka
.............resulting in a perfect being..........
The concept of "god as a being" is the whole thing that got us started in this anyway.....*Aligator clutches chest*.....(mutters) talking to christians is maddening.... they don't listen. God is not a being, perfect or imperfect. He is a concept. A consciousness. The sum total of everything alive. And the very idea that he had a son - by a virgin, no less - is ludicrous. To Mack: Unlax, my friend. There is neither Heaven nor Hell to follow life. Just do the best you can. It'll be good enough.
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Brang it On!
#69
09-02-2006, 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by Aligator
Originally Posted by mundaka
.............resulting in a perfect being..........
The concept of "god as a being" is the whole thing that got us started in this anyway.....*Aligator clutches chest*.....(mutters) talking to christians is maddening.... they don't listen.
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Non stupidus fetifico
#70
09-03-2006, 02:14 AM
Originally Posted by Aligator
Originally Posted by mundaka
.............resulting in a perfect being..........
The concept of "god as a being" is the whole thing that got us started in this anyway.....*Aligator clutches chest*.....(mutters) talking to christians is maddening.... they don't listen. God is not a being, perfect or imperfect. He is a concept. A consciousness. The sum total of everything alive. And the very idea that he had a son - by a virgin, no less - is ludicrous. To Mack: Unlax, my friend. There is neither Heaven nor Hell to follow life. Just do the best you can. It'll be good enough. The way you think of Christians some times, I think of non-believeres, so I know where your comming from, I am just on the other side of the fence! :lol:
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You can twist perceptions Reality won't budge You can raise objections I will be the judge And the jury Neil Peart |
