There is nothing I can say, or show, or prove that will alter your belief in the bible, or God.

Other wise, It is not belief. And you are not a true believer.

Your absolute faith in God, and the bible, precludes you from being a divergent thinker.

The only way you can quilfy as a divergent thinker, is for you to accept that you might be wrong, and be willing to admit it and change.

You wont do that.

And that is why it is called faith.

You say that just because you have engaged in debate, that it makes you a divergent thinker.

You need to be able to change your ideaology by debate, not just debate for the sake of debate, to become that.

 

I understand your point.

This all started with the Preacher thing.
You see God in His wisdom, Gave teachers, preachers, evangelist, prophets etc.
This is the basis of my argument.
Even though the definitions you have givin me, they are not the definitions given to me of Gods Word.
So I guess once again we will have to agree to disagree.

 

The definitions I have give to you, are commonly accepted descriptions of how the words are used.

I want to be clear here.

I do not question your beliefs, or think that you are wrong.

What I question is how you use the English language.

Think of it this way.

The color purple could look differently to different people.

But it is still the color purple and it can be defined by using sound science.

Faith could look differently to different people.

And it cannot be defined by anyone, other than the individual. And certainly never by science.

All I would like, is if you are going to use words, then use them as they where meant to be used. Not to your convenience.

 

Predestination does not exist, IMO.

I think the christians are wrong. Their view of god is simplistic.

 

My purpose for posting in this thread has not been to debate for the sake of debating but to provoke thought. This debate has been going on for thousands of years. I do not believe I am the only poster here that believes in predestination but I think I am the only one to state reasons.

Since no one has posted this verse, I will do it.

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I have never looked up "willing" in the original language. The New American Standard uses the word "wishing". Does anyone care to look the word up in the original language and post it?

How I see the word "will" in this context is if there are people who want different things, the one with the stronger "will" gets what he wants.

I will post a rebuttal to Redeemed's post when I have more time.

 

Same here chap. I have been part of discussions like that in the past and they are not fruitful. In fact, most go on only to satisfy someones ego. I like to discuss topics like this with other Christians if it can be done the way we are doing now......to provoke thought and edify everyone. If it were to sink to debating just to disagree then I would back away.

There are lots of things that can be discussed and debated in the Christian faith. However, the rules to be followed are simple. Love God with all you've got & love each other as we love ourselves. If everyone kept these in the forefront then there would be far fewer problems.

As I said earlier, thanks for your post. You provided me with some good material to study. I have not been spending the time in Bible study I needed and it felt good to get back into a study again. Look forward to talking with you in the future.

Thanks,

 

I use the words that I seem fit, this will not change, so I guess you trying to correct me will not ethier. :lol:

Rocky, I am not a scholar, I am not even a good speller, and I am definantly not going to look in a dictinary, just to get my point across.
You understood what I meant as I understood what you meant, to argue about it is pointless.

8)

 

I said yes because I think that God doesn't want me there. He hasn't helped me any in this life, IF he is even truly there. I haven't had proof yet that He is true and isn't some made-up being. How can I know for sure that some guy didn't write the Bible meaning for it to be a fictional story? How do we know that the government isn't doing mind controll? I don't even believe 100% if He is real. If so, then I think that he doesn't like me or something because He hasn't given me anything. And I don't really want to hear "He gave you life blah blah" because that is just an excuse for Him not giving me anything.

I am sorry if I offend(ed) anyone, but these are my feelings. Thanks.

 

Let's just get one thing str8, everybody aint goin' to hell and everyone aint goin' to heaven. It's all up to each individual to decide. Faith isn't based on proof, and the bible is all about faith. The only thing we are deserving of is death, but to those who believe that Christ died for us - those believers will be saved.

But all of this depends on your faith. Of course, if you don't believe in God, that's another story. I'm not gonna tell you that you are goin' to hell just cuz you don't believe in God. All I can do is pray for you, and pray that God will make Himself known to you. All a true christian believer can do is love you... Without love, faith means absolutely nothing. And God did not come to condemn man, but to give everlasting life.

 

Oklie doklie Here is my 5 bucks worth Predestination doesn not happen. Period end of story. Why you may ask? Here is the why! A thing called the Atonment Were Christ suffered bled and died raised himself up on the third day to save us all! All will gain eternal life not all Will gain exaltaion! It by free will we live. the choices we make and the tings we do determin what and who we will be. And I am not going to argue with any one on this it been predetermend all ready.