You need to slow down and re-read the post! You CAN indeed start right now to run your own ship and start getting ready for the day when you are truely "on your own". This wasn't some sort of slam against you. You need to start setting your mind on just what YOU believe and feel about things and build you core values. Some of these things you will change a bit as you grow as a human and as you experience more life. There are plenty of examples of people out there that you can use as examples to make decisions to build your own standards.

Since this is so tricky for you, I'll no longer reply to you in anyway on any topic

 

thanks fozzy. i appreciate your helpful words in these hard times. i would love to have you as a friend. so nice.

 

Yup.

Yup, one or the other...but they can't have both. And the way most of these people talk they are trying to have their cake and eat it too.

Smarmy wishful thinking...or a lame excuse used instead of admitting that "stuff happens"....and it has absolutely nothing to do with God.

Thats a fact.

Here's what I think: Why would God....go to all the trouble of creating a world, all the critters, the plants, and people....and decide in advance what each and every one of them is going to do? Why would he create people and predestine them to go to hell? Seems to me like if that was the case, he's a weird god with way too much time on his hands and a sick sense of humor. Actually....its a stupid concept, and its used by misguided people to justify their particular " brand of religion".

To say that Predestination is factual... is almost as goofy as saying god is like Mel Brooks, and just as whimsical.....

On the other hand... If he created the world and everything on it, and gave man "free will" to decide which way he would go...good or bad, and so on....then he would be a fair and benevolent god.

Its interesting that modern "so-called christians" are still flogging this issue, considering that even Luther believed in "free will". As he was the original "Reformationist", who wrote expansively on all this....but along comes Calvin....he doesn't buy it, and on top of that...he says everyone is inherantly evil...... Given the sources of much of this information, its no wonder so many erstwhile christians are confused....

 

So far, I'm with you. (Even though you may be facetious) Of course I have gotten angry at God for the thought of this well because it seems that uh, he didn't consult me before he decided to um..., be God. How dare he do things that my uh, infinite wisdom would not dictate.




It is true that he designed everything. The problem with this thinking is that the bible teaches that "good" is everything that conforms to God's expressed will. Everything that does not conform to God's expressed will is evil. So the cause of everything vile, evil, and unjust can be traced to the disobedience/hatred of God. If everyone conformed to the expressed will of God, namely love God with everything that they are and the golden rule, there would be no evil.

If God wanted souls to burn in hell forever as you say, why did He bother with creation as we know it? Couldn't he have simply created people on the day of judgement. Since God is all knowing, He simply could have said, I know what everyone would have done if I would have created a realm for you to live in so I sentence all of you to hell and the rest can be with me in heaven. In this mode of thinking, creating the universe as we know it just gives the people he wants to go to hell time to enjoy things a little bit before their fate is sealed and makes the people he wants to go to heaven suffer needlessly without reason.

He could even skip that step and simply created hell and have people come into being in the flames.

So, an all-powerful God cannot rule as he sees fit because that is vile, unjust, and evil. Any created being cannot be given a command that he remotely does not desire to do. If a created being rebels against God, there must not be any consequence that the said being would consider to be too harsh.

 

well the bottom line is that he is UNRELIABLE!!! :x

 

Not unreliable kimahri. Remember one thing, even with all the experts in the world, all the posters on every message board, all the books ever written about God we still know almost nothing about Him, His nature, or what He can and can't do and why.

Regardless of what point you take on an arguement, take predestination for example, if Christians are true they will readily admit that there is much we as believers must take on faith. There are things that happen and we don't know the reason why nor will we know it on this side of life. Chances are that most of these discussions are moot and when we face God we will find answers about these things that blow our minds. Chances are we will all be wrong to some extent about what we believe was the "right" answer on just about everything.

So whats the point you may ask. Well to tell you the truth sometimes I ask that too. I know just like when I was growing up with my earthly parent I don't know everything just like I dont know everything about my spiritual father. But because I believed that she loved me I trusted her. I had faith in her that she was doing the right thing. Sometimes it hurt. Sometimes I did not like it. And because she was human many times she was wrong. There are times my spiritual father has allowed me to hurt & had things happen to me I dont like but I still trust Him because I do believe he loves me. And being God I believe he is perfect and has only the best for me at heart unlike my mom who had her own hang ups.

It still falls down to faith. If I can have faith that my mom loved me and took care of me with all her faults then I can have faith that God loves me and will take care of me even with all my faults. Maybe not what I want it to be still it is the best for me.

hang in there buddy.

 

i understand what you are saying, but i haven't had ANY proof ever that He is there. If i could get one tiny piece of SOMETHING that would help me believe. how do you know that all the things that are unanswerable arent just coincidences? that is why i don't even know if he is real? i could make up a new god and tell people that "this happened because of this" and people would fall for it. Hey look! Its a semi-truck based god! he makes sure that all the truckers are happy and that they will never leave the carreer. I know that sounded really corny, but sombody would fall for it and then it would spread and pretty soon a large part of the comunity believes in a "god" that is not real. I just haven't had any miracles or any proof that he is truly there.

 

I wish I had some tangible example to give you kimahri. But then again if I did I would have the proof that not just you but many in the world need to say that God is real, He exists, and He loves everyone of us. It sounds corny I know but its another one of those things were it is faith. The dictionary defines faith as confidence or trust in a person or thing, a belief in God, or a system of religious belief. In Christianity faith is defined as something like this...hope in what I can not see, a promise not yet delivered. In some ways I know this only by faith.

However, I do look at things in the world around me and I see an order to things. One example I will give you is the periodic table of the elements. Next time you are in school take a look at it. If it is not changed much in 20 years you should see some empty spaces. I asked my science teacher what those spaces were for. She told me it was for the elements that science had not yet found or discovered yet. According to her science knows they exist but we just have not found them yet. That is just one small example that I find amazing. Granted from my belief I see that as God, the master architect of the universe, making order out of chaos. So much so that we in our limited wisdom have discovered some of the elements in the universe He created. Yet, we also have enought knowledge to know we have not discovered everything yet.

Small example I know but message boards don't have a lot of room. And I know it probably sounds corny. But that is why I also advise you to go and seek out answers on your own. First, say simple prayer that God will guide you. I know you may question your belief but God does hear you. If you ask for wisdom He will grant it and help you get answers. Now don't expect a lightening bolt from heaven or a burning bush. If it happens great! If not keep searching. All I can tell you is that God does love you, He wants you to prosper, and He wants to help but just like all parents He will try to teach you patence and then let you learn as you go.

 

That's easy. It's all in how you look at things. When something bad happens, you say "Oh well, it's God's will and I'm not able to understand God." When something good happens, you say "Praise the Lord!" Cause you know, and omnipotent, omniscent, immortal, perfect god really likes being praised by weak,stupid, mortal humans. It's like training a dog. You praise the dog, or the God, and it does what you want it to. Makes perfect sense.

Yeah, I'm being a smartass. Sorry 'bout that. This is really what Christianity looks like to me.

 

Redeemed, that's a pretty good explanation. Good job. An old friend became a Christian after studying Chemistry in university.

Well...there are some philosophers who have attempted to prove the existence of God. Maybe you can look into them kimhari. Ultimately it does depend on faith though.