[Popeye]

You seem to have missed my point here. I hired and trained and tried to document. I had NO issues with women in the shop and if I read my post correctly two of them were excellent employees. 2 of them were typical no matter what gender and left, I am sure they were told lies by their school just like a lot recruiters lie about a lot of items. They simply did not do their research properly. MY PROBLEM was that even with correct documentation, which would have been more than enough to get rid of any of the male techs that I had working for me, I STILL COULD not get rid of her until there was a major problem.

As far as pay and treatment of people, I can tell you that the tech who moved to SoCal was my top paid tech that I ever had working for me and she deserved every dime. I still stay in touch with her from time to time. The one that got pregnant and decided to stay home to take care of her kid was one of my top sales people and got paid accordingly. I had no problem with her reasons for leaving as family is the most important part of life. Almost every employee that I had that would still be around would work for me again in a heartbeat. So my management skills that according to you need worked on were just fine. My question was what was I supposed to do differently with the ONE tech that I could not get rid of because of GENDER. That is what I want to know. I gave everybody a fair shot, regardless of age, sex, race or any of the others and the only one I got burned by was the gender issue which as I stated before was one out of the entire workforce of hard working women which I know may have just been bad luck but it (as stated in previous post) still made me hesitant.

I do believe everyone should have an equal opportunity, my POINT that I think you missed is that maybe more people would give equal opportunity if EVERYTHING was equal. If I could of gotten rid that one tech like any other male I never would have had and experience with female employees that was anything worse or better than I could have had with male employees.

So if my letter offended you than sorry, but I wanted to know what other hard working females thought could be done to make things more equal on ALL ends.

[RedRaven]

Well then, I would then suggest you contact the EEOC, they're open 8 AM to 8 PM... You can get contact info. on the interent, give them a phone call, and tell them about your experience... See what they have to say...

If this situation is in your past, then why even bring it up now?... If your that concerned, maybe you can also contact a civil rights attorney, and ask them your question...

I can only speak from my own personal experiences, and frankly, woman are still being paid less for doing the same work. They have to work twice as hard just to be considered even with the men... It is also attitudes, maybe there simply was friction between you, and this former employee... We don't know exactly what happened in your situation... There are many employees who if they feel they're not being treated fairly, will not listen, nor make the effort that is expected from them. I wonder if you took the time to sit down, and have an honest discussion with this former employee... A lot of issues could easily be resolved with simple honest communication...

I think your not wanting to consider hiring woman in the future because of this one situation is ridiculous... I've worked in places where more men were shown the door, then any of the woman who were employed... So, what does that tell you...

Call the EEOC, and find out what they have to say about your experience... :wink:

[Popeye]

It would appear that you do not want to listen. I am not bashing women in the work place at all. I do know that a lot of them are still being treated unfairly which is wrong. This was one experience and all I wanted to say is that things need to be equal on all sides. Good luck to you and take care of yourself.

[RedRaven]

Originally Posted by Popeye

It would appear that you do not want to listen. I am not bashing women in the work place at all. I do know that a lot of them are still being treated unfairly which is wrong. This was one experience and all I wanted to say is that things need to be equal on all sides. Good luck to you and take care of yourself.

Never said, you were bashing woman, and I hope you are not taking what I tried to say the wrong way...

You asked for suggestions, and I merely offered that you contact the EEOC... That's all... I don't think any of us are experts in the area you are trying to get answers to your question... That's all I'm saying... :wink:

I would only say, that you shouldn't let one situation affect your outlook in the future...

[Popeye]

You are right, and also correct that it is in the past. I left the company due to an unethical (IMO) business plan from corporate, and that is why I am looking at trucking now. I do truly believe in equal rights and wish everybody the best of luck including you. I see now that you were trying to give a helpful answer and I misunderstood you ops: . Again take care and I look forward to more of your posts since I find them informative and well thought out (except when you are arguing with me :wink: )

[Mack2]

I just wanted to make this coment then I'm going to run away befor you all kill me.

Red Raven you said that women work twice as hard and still get less pay than men.

Well don't take the job if you don't think they are paying you enough. It is just common sense.

Gess and you women claim to be smarter than us men. :roll:

[RedRaven]

Originally Posted by Popeye

You are right, and also correct that it is in the past. I left the company due to an unethical (IMO) business plan from corporate, and that is why I am looking at trucking now. I do truly believe in equal rights and wish everybody the best of luck including you. I see now that you were trying to give a helpful answer and I misunderstood you ops: . Again take care and I look forward to more of your posts since I find them informative and well thought out (except when you are arguing with me :wink: )

No worries, Popeye... :wink: Just tried to help answer your questions, that's all...

[larz0142]

Women don't get it..If a man buys the wrong beer or dresses like his wife the jabs are endless...And don't even comment on what some other dude is wearing..Get this I change the brakes on a friends car everything rotors and all asked her husband to get in and pump it....I could hear pumping but nothing..I freaked,I thought I had blown the breaks...He was pumping the gas I laughed my tail off and ribbed his tail.(see right there"ribbed his tail" would not go by so well in my group) Well still to this very day,that was 2yrs ogo..It's hard being a guy..Let one of your buds hear you scream after SOMETHING touches you in the river..I could go on and on..

[RedRaven]

Originally Posted by Mack2

I just wanted to make this coment then I'm going to run away befor you all kill me.

Red Raven you said that women work twice as hard and still get less pay than men.

Well don't take the job if you don't think they are paying you enough. It is just common sense.

Gess and you women claim to be smarter than us men. :roll:

It isn't that woman are not smart about choosing a job... The problems arise, when they are not told the truth about the job, in terms of pay... Sometimes they find out later, once they've already started the job, that "male" counterparts were paid more for doing the same job... Or, that the boss tries to get more work out of you, without paying for that "extra" work...

Believe me there are things woman can do in these cases... They can simply ask the boss for a raise, and present evidence that they deserve more pay. Or, they can choose to not offer to do "extra" work, without receiving more money for the "extra" work...

I've been honest with a couple of my former employers. I said, you hired me to do a particular job, at an agreed amount of pay. If you want me to do more, your going to have to pay me more... It is like trying to get the best deal on buying a new car... You simply try to get the best deal for yourself... I've always done more work, and offered ideas to improve, and increase their business. So, I have always been confident asking an employer for more money...

If they were not willing to pay more money. Then I simply did the job they hired me to do, at the pay amount they offered. I've often gotten raises, sometimes more than one a year. Because I showed the employer that I was worth it, did the job well, and exceeded their expectations... When they didn't want to pay more, for more effort on my part, then I stopped making the extra effort... Once they saw the value of my extra effort they came around, and paid me more...

If they really didn't want to pay more, then I simply moved on... Told them I was leaving, because the fact is, that I have to be able to make a living, period...

What is unfair, and woman can't always get this information, is that when you are first hired, you do not know exactly what the employer has paid men, who have done the same job in the past... Unless you have some way of speaking to other employees (male). It is very difficult to see exactly what that company has, or should be paying for that job position...

Like I said before though, if once you start you are able to find out what the pay rate should be, you can either ask the boss for that pay increase, or move on, if they are not willing to do so...

Frankly, I think all jobs should be posted with what it is the company is willing to pay for that job opening... Then you would prevent any issues relating to equal pay, for equal work...

The only reason I can think of that companies do not do this, is because it simply makes it easier for those seeking employment to pick, and choose the company they want to work for, and those companies who either can't afford to pay higher wages, or don't want to pay higher wages, will be left behind in the hiring game, and lose out to their competition... It is just how business works many times...

But, the smart job seeker if they do their research will find the best company, paying the best wages, and offering the best benefits, if they are willing to do the work to find these jobs... :wink:

[Mack2]

Originally Posted by RedRaven

It isn't that woman are not smart about choosing a job... The problems arise, when they are not told the truth about the job, in terms of pay... Sometimes they find out later, once they've already started the job, that "male" counterparts were paid more for doing the same job... Or, that the boss tries to get more work out of you, without paying for that "extra" work...

Believe me there are things woman can do in these cases... They can simply ask the boss for a raise, and present evidence that they deserve more pay. Or, they can choose to not offer to do "extra" work, without receiving more money for the "extra" work...

I've been honest with a couple of my former employers. I said, you hired me to do a particular job, at an agreed amount of pay. If you want me to do more, your going to have to pay me more... It is like trying to get the best deal on buying a new car... You simply try to get the best deal for yourself... I've always done more work, and offered ideas to improve, and increase their business. So, I have always been confident asking an employer for more money...

If they were not willing to pay more money. Then I simply did the job they hired me to do, at the pay amount they offered. I've often gotten raises, sometimes more than one a year. Because I showed the employer that I was worth it, did the job well, and exceeded their expectations... When they didn't want to pay more, for more effort on my part, then I stopped making the extra effort... Once they saw the value of my extra effort they came around, and paid me more...

If they really didn't want to pay more, then I simply moved on... Told them I was leaving, because the fact is, that I have to be able to make a living, period...

What is unfair, and woman can't always get this information, is that when you are first hired, you do not know exactly what the employer has paid men, who have done the same job in the past... Unless you have some way of speaking to other employees (male). It is very difficult to see exactly what that company has, or should be paying for that job position...

Like I said before though, if once you start you are able to find out what the pay rate should be, you can either ask the boss for that pay increase, or move on, if they are not willing to do so...

Frankly, I think all jobs should be posted with what it is the company is willing to pay for that job opening... Then you would prevent any issues relating to equal pay, for equal work...

The only reason I can think of that companies do not do this, is because it simply makes it easier for those seeking employment to pick, and choose the company they want to work for, and those companies who either can't afford to pay higher wages, or don't want to pay higher wages, will be left behind in the hiring game, and lose out to their competition... It is just how business works many times...

But, the smart job seeker if they do their research will find the best company, paying the best wages, and offering the best benefits, if they are willing to do the work to find these jobs... :wink:

Like I said if you don't think you are being paid enough find another job.