[ssoutlaw]

Originally Posted by Fozzy

if gays did "flock" here.. it would probably import a lot more culture than Nascar, shotguns, inbreeding and recreational alcoholism..

P.S. I'm not FROM Oklahoma, I just ended up here.

See you can help them, you’re already there.....lol
You are an angry individual and as crazy as a shi$ house rat. It sounds to me like you are scared of the word GOD. because you beat the hell out of anyone who talks about and posts about religion. You should probably leave the religion posts alone. Ah forget it you’re not worth the typing to talk to you. Have fun with your nascar, gun toting drunks we will send to Oklahomo! See ya warden........

[Useless]

Originally Posted by roadhog

Foz...
On limiting the actions of others...I agree it is a difficult thing to control...let alone enforce. But I'm sure you realize that goes both ways. Say we allow the Gay's all the "rights" they are demanding....then what is next in line for sexual deviates wanting their "rights" as well?

As far as trying to correlate homosexuality with "deviant" or "perverse" behavior, that is an emotional string that resonates loudly, but it is also very erroneous. There is a vast difference between being gay, and being a sexual predator. I know this to be true, because I was the victim of a sexual predator. Homosexuality in itself involves the conduct of two consenting adults. This is not the case with sexual predators; their victims do not have a voice or a say-so in what is being done to them.

Most pedophiles are actually heterosexual. There has been no outcry to restrict their ability to marry.

How about say a man or woman wanting multiple marriage partners? A man who loves Farm animals? What are his rights? Shouldn't he be allowed to marry his object of affections? Even a pedophile could argue the age of consent to age 16....then 15...then? Don't some countries allow 13 year olds to marry? Even this Country at one time? What about group of Satan worshipers claiming a day of orgy in the Park? Brother's and Sisters or First Cousin's wanting to marry?

You get my point.

These may be exaggerated examples...but then again...it surprises me this society is even willing to humor these homosexuals...period. We have been trying to allow them to feel comfortable...but come on...return the damn favor...:evil:

No, I do NOT get your point. Once again, a farm animal has no voice or say-so, other than it's ability to try to fight it's way loose; no more say-so than a woman being violated by a rapist. Oh, BTW, I have not heard any demands for a ban on marraiges for rapists!! As for the multiple wives issue, those matters are completely seperate from the issue of homosexuality.

It goes within our Christian behavior to allow people their way of life...just so far as it does not disrupt or jeopardize the American Way of Life.

So much for "live and let live."

And YOU decide what is "The American Way of Life" ?? Hey!! Homosexuals pay taxes!! Are they to pay their taxes, yet be denied their rights to representation, or their persuits of happiness, such as happiness that would be found in the institutuion of Marraige?? It's their way of life too; as long as their is mutual consent between them, and their are no victims, they should be free to choose it if they so desire!! As far as trying to make an arguement to "The Majority Rules", The U.S. Constituion was CLEARLY designed to allow for majority rule, but it also EXPRESSLY addresses the fact that the rights of the minority must also be recognized, respected, and enforced, and CAN NOT be abridged!!.

It's the same Constitution here!! The same rules that we are governed by, the same protections that are to be afforded to you are to be afforded ALL of us!!

...and on that point... :?
Yes we Americans are welcoming all races, nationalities, and welcoming everyone to enjoy our freedoms and enjoy their choice of beliefs.
BUT...IT IS OUR HOUSE!!! WE HAVE HOUSE RULES.

In terms of the rights of Homosexuals, this is no more "Our House" than it is "Their House" The same flawed logic was employed 50 years ago to justify racial segregation, denying Negroes and members of other minority groups the use of a ballot and a voting booth, a tiolet, or a needed motel room, or a seat in a classroom, or treatment in a hospital or doctors office, entry into a store, gas station, or other place of business, access to a public park, swimming pool, or beach, as well as discrimination in employment and housing laws. Back then, the title to a home often incorporated a clause in the home's title prohibiting the sale of a house to a Negro or other minority groups. Loans that were available to Negroes were made at ussery rates.

I remember the signs all too clearly and all too well:

"We Serve White Customers Only!!"
"Colords, Stay Out!!"
"NO Niggers Allowed!!"
"Seating In This Area Is For Reserved Our White Patrrons ONLY!!"
"Colords Use Rear Entrance Only"
"We Do Not Allow Colords in Our Restrooms!!"
"Welcome To Vidor, Texas. Home Of The Balckest Dirt, And The Whitest People!!"

All of this, from a good, God Fearing, "Christian Nation"??
More pathetic,and embarrassing, is the fact that even as a child, I believed that those signs should have been left hanging in the windows!!

Just as it was wrong to discriminate against someone because of race or skin color, it is equally wrong and repugnant to discriminate against or oppress consenting adults who engage in a law abiding alternative lifestyle where there are no victims, but rather purse-lipped Christains who have their noses out of joint.

This Country was founded on CHRISTIAN BELIEFS....and much blood was spent to make this Country a free Nation. You can practice your brand of religion...that is our generosity to you. BUT DO NOT attempt to tear this Country down with your demands that WE conform to YOU. If you do not like our rules...LEAVE...or better yet...don't come here to start with.

True, we were FOUNDED upon Judeo Christian beliefs, but that does NOT mean that we are GOVERNED by them; we also have something called "The First Amendment" which CLEARLY forbids congress from making ANY law which recognizes one religion over another, or forbids the free expression thereof.

In as far as our own natural born citizens...same deal applies. We are a CHRISTIAN NATION...and we will defend our RIGHTS and FREEDOMS...in which our Country was founded on. If we vote no to your demands...no means no. Are you really surprised? You think if you keep rubbing your disgusting behavior in our face, we'll finally give in?

We ARE NOT a Christian Nation. The very PURPOSE of The First Amendment was to ensure that we WOULD NOT be a nation of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindu's, Pagans, Buddhists, or any other religion, or that one religion would dominate or prevail over another one, or that one religion or religious group would in any way be subbordinated to another.

The Treaty of Tripoli, signed by Thomas Jefferson, and ratified by The House and Senate, clearly and expressly states that The United States IS NOT a Christian nation. As far as "good Christian beliefs" are concerned, I would invite you to go back and study the history of The Ku Klux Klan. One of their most fertile recruiting grounds were Protestant denominations, and particularly, The Baptist Church. This recruitment was overt and open, often taking place during worship services. I grew up in an extremely racist home, social, and educational environment. I do speak from personal experience here. If you really believe that the Klan's influence had vanishedby the 1970's, you are fooling yourself!! I was approached by some Klansmen back in the late 1970's, and was asked to think about joining!! (I didn't, but I came frightfully close, though!!)

Now...I am not directing this post at anyone in particular, outside of my answer on a few points to Fozzy. It is my only way of voicing my feelings. As you may know...I am not one to be serious for more than 3 minutes in a row. I normally do not like to voice my opinions...because I am not wired as an intellect...like some of you. I am more wired emotionally...and can tend to be a "drama queen." Which may be the only thing I have in common with a homo. :lol:

Yes, you do have a right to your opinions, but you do not have the right to oppress others simply because they see things differently. I've highlighted a sentence here and I will ask that you re-read it, and think carefully about what you just said.

"I am more WIRED emotionally......."

My question is this: Why is it that YOU are somehow entitled to be wired in your own unique way, yet you perceive that you have the right to discriminate against to consenting adults, who are not causing harm to any victim, simply because they are wired in their own unique and individual ways??

To quote Harry Coutney, who was at one time the leader of the Political Opposition party in Belize during the 1980's:

"I would hope that one could persuade the government to recognize the errors of it's ways, and to amend and modify it's policies, by appealing to reason. Emotions can be difficult to control, and this is where we find many of the difficulties that the more emotive countries and populations wind up with."

First, when you look at the histories of nations and countries which operate as Theocracies, you will, for the most part, find war, violence, hatred, oppression, crimes against humanity, and civil unrest, all in the name of God, or Allah....... Hatred, no matter what religious belief or donomination it is disguised under, all flows from the same well; Christian Theocratic Governance is no different. No matter what reason, no matter what religion, no matter what justifications may be used, theocracies are evil. Theocracies and Religious Factions open up the floodgates for hatred, oppression, and evil to reign.

The United States Constitution was specifically designed to restrict and limit the powers of government, and to ensure that the flow of power would flow from the people to the government. It was designed to specifically enumerate the power of the federal government, and the limits of the federal government's ability to restrict or interfere with the states powers to govern. That is why so many ammendments to The U.S. Constitutions begin with the words "Congress shall make NO LAW.....

The U.S. Constitution was NEVER designed to define, maintain, or enforce an ordained social order. The attempt to do that with the 18th Amendment, which by outlawed the sale of alcohol was an abyssmal failure that only served to feed corruption within governments at the federal, state, and local levels, and to empower and strengthen underworld organizations such as The Mafia.

Speaking as a VICTIM of violent sexual abuse and unspeakable violations which were perpetrated by my father, who, BTW was married to a woman, by all rights I should be extremely homophobic.

As for my "good Christian Mother", she was my father's accomplice and co-conspirator. After she and my father divorced, she went on to marry another "good Christian man" who was also a pedophile and a child molester, with numerous files in several different counties that we know of. His history is well documented.. She concealed his history from us for over eight years, until we learned the truth from her husband's children. That happened after one of my nieces made an outcry. He got to her. He molested her. All that could be done now was to deal with the pain and damage that he & his "good Christian wife" left in their wake.

Yet, there was NO public outcry, or demand, or drive to restrict THER legal right to get married!!

My (ex)mother and her husband were, of course, "Pillars of their Church", where they were very active with????........................

....................you guessed it, folks, CHILDREN!!!

As for their good, "Christian" Pastor?? He treated us like dirt when we went to him with not only our concerns, but also with the documented files, and police reports. We complained to the higher church authorities, about his conduct, showed them our documentation and police report.

What did THEY do???

Why, of course!!!...they transferred him to ANOTHER good, Christian CHURCH!!

BTW, we are talking about a Protestant denomination here, not Catholic!!

Having said all of that:

Speaking as a SURVIVOR of violent sexual abuse and unspeakable violations which were perpetrated by my father, (who, BTW, was married to a woman), and after I spent several yers in very intense, excruciatingly painful therapy which I persued VERY aggressively, I can tell you that where homosexuals are concerned, you really have nothing to fear.

Are their some violent homosexual predators?? Certainly, there are!!

But go do some serious digging, some very serious fact finding, and you willl discover that the VAST majority of pedophiles and rapists are heterosexual.

[Fozzy]

See you can help them, you’re already there.....lol

I think you are in far more need of help that any homosexual..

You are an angry individual and as crazy as a shi$ house rat.

So are you an authority on either?

It sounds to me like you are scared of the word GOD.

Which word of which "god" am I supposedly "afraid of"? I leave being afraid to those who need the crutch and the need to fit in with other folks who pretend that organized religion means something special.

because you beat the hell out of anyone who talks about and posts about religion. You should probably leave the religion posts alone.

Why? Are you nervous? Most of the Buffet religious tend to not want to talk about their own religions because of the real rules and demand that their religion places on those who actually follow the rules of said religion, So far if you claim to be a Christian.. you really SUCK at it, if You are claiming to be an American, you suck at that more than your comical attempts at pretending to be religious.

Ah forget it you’re not worth the typing to talk to you.

To late now, You still typed and posted it, I guess you must think I'm worth the time, or your just trying to show of for the other members of the buffet bunch.. cowards do tend to run in packs...

Have fun with your nascar, gun toting drunks we will send to Oklahomo! See ya warden........

Are the evangelicals heading this way too? We are already up to our arm pits in the Southern Baptists...

[ssoutlaw]

Originally Posted by Fozzy

I think you are in far more need of help that any homosexual..

So are you an authority on either?

Which word of which "god" am I supposedly "afraid of"? I leave being afraid to those who need the crutch and the need to fit in with other folks who pretend that organized religion means something special.

Why? Are you nervous? Most of the Buffet religious tend to not want to talk about their own religions because of the real rules and demand that their religion places on those who actually follow the rules of said religion, So far if you claim to be a Christian.. you really SUCK at it, if You are claiming to be an American, you suck at that more than your comical attempts at pretending to be religious.

To late now, You still typed and posted it, I guess you must think I'm worth the time, or your just trying to show of for the other members of the buffet bunch.. cowards do tend to run in packs...

Are the evangelicals heading this way too? We are already up to our arm pits in the Southern Baptists...

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

[golfhobo]

Someone said:

I wonder what kind of a world it would be if instead of worrying about everyone else's sins, we were more mindful of our own.

Although, not necessarily original, (remember the quote about the mote in owns own eye?) this stuck out in my mind as I read this entire thread.

TerryLamar, I see you are STILL beating that dead horse about the Separation of Church and State! :lol:

I KNOW it's a dangerous postion to take, but I mostly side with Fozzy on this one! :shock:

Roadhog, I understand your "emotional" wiring and position, but I can't agree with you. This is not YOUR "Christian" country to decide who has what "rights."

This is a country founded on EQUALITY and PERSONAL rights! (I know, that sounds "conservative.")

I don't have a problem with people taking the Bible literally, but as someone posted, if you must DO so.... then look at those OTHER Levitical laws! My suggestion is that you take what meaning you need from the Bible to govern your OWN lives and conscience.... and refrain from imposing those beliefs on the tax paying citizens in this country who may not believe the same way you do. As Fozzy says.... this is NOT a "theocracy!"

There is, at least, a coherent argument that would imply that God is just a "belief system" to explain the unknown. One cannot PROVE he exists. Maybe he DOES.... but without proof, how can you cite his teachings as some form of LAW that we must ALL follow? Maybe he exists, but AGREES that his law is not binding on the United States of America and its government or diverse peoples.

I return again to Jesus's proclamation: "Render unto God that which is HIS, and unto Caesar that which is his" (paraphrased) Your DUTY, as a Christian, is to follow YOUR beliefs, and as mentioned, to NOT judge others.

Your DUTY, as an American citizen, is to uphold and support the Constitution of these United States, which SPECIFICALLY provides for the freedom of expression, OF and FROM religion, and the pursuit of HAPPINESS!

I am not advocating the freefall of society into the abyss of sexual deviation and devil worship. But, the CONTROL of such activities should be a consensus of the governed - NOT the proclamation of the PIOUS!

Think what you want of Fozzy's "attitude," but the facts that he states about the numbers of people killed throughout history in the name of SOMEONE'S GOD, are indisputable.

But denying homosexuals the right to some form of LEGAL UNION, and the benefits that come with it - enjoyed by those who are "married" in someone's view of what God has ordained - is flat out discriminatory... and against the equal protection, and yes "Separation" laws of the Constitution.

God does NOT dictate the laws of this country! And, I don't believe it has ever been or WOULD be his intention!

I could go on and on, but I'm sure you've all heard this from me before. Personally, I think homosexuality is a sin against God, and a despicable act. But, MY religious opinions have NO PLACE in the governing of my fellow citizens! I, too, wish they would keep it a bit more "conservative," but until the Constitution is changed to make sexual preferences, that go against established religious beliefs, a violation of the LAW... I am NOT inclined to deprive them of their Birthrights!

In the aftermath of 9-11, with the raping of our economy by the massive influx of illegal immigrants, and the total FAILURE of our current foreign and economic policies, I just can't see this as a matter that requires our immediate attention, and NOT ONE minute of Legislative effort!

Hobo

[madpuppy]

I vote with Diamond_t

[Fozzy]

Here's the off topic post from SSoutlaw that he posted on another thread.. His inability to control himself and his language will make this tough to read as he loves to type around the word censors so he can get his homophobia to fit in.

I still think YOU are a (edited), this doesn’t even have anything to do with this thread.

Really? Wow! Did someone have to tell YOU this?

I think you are a homosexual, and if you read back to your early 2006 posts you will see why I think this of YOU!!!

I think you label everyone who is smarter than you a homosexual, so pretty much the entire male population over the age of 5 is now a homosexual...

Whenever the (edited) subject comes up, you are right there to protect your (edited) friends.

You know what.. the funny thing is that you probably have just as many gay friends as I do. You see them and interact with them everyday. Most are just as decent and hard working as you and every other American is.

You (edited) about the country your son fights for in so many posts, like you could do or find a better place to be!

Not really, I complain about the dumbing down and the spoiled nature of the American lemmings.. you fall right into that category so your are always a little "testy". Of course every time you open your face, you prove my point so well, that answering your posts are completely entertainment for me.

The last statement was just me getting sidetracked….lol

Sidetracked? You???

You talk about all these freedoms that everyone has a right to, then on the same hand want our government to make up laws, or allow laws to be written protecting your (edited) friends so when they die of AIDS the same sex partner can claim their social security and WE pay for it!!

Make up laws? How about just following the founding documents and the constitution? Ever read them or is "Jugs" magazine about your only source of news and education? We are already paying for social security for unmarried (by law) heterosexuals, 1.5+ million abortions, support for fatherless children, support for unwed mothers.. which do you think is more costly? The homosexuals are forced to pay for all these.. should they be able to "opt out"?

This has nothing to do with GOD!! The moral majority does not except this, and we as citizens have a right to not PAY for something that is outside of what is not normal in our society!!!

To bad you do not live in a pure Democracy.. We are a land of personal freedoms, personal responsibility and of course much to your chagrin, equal protection under the law.

These (edited) don’t care about anything but the almighty DOLLAR.

???? Your starting to rave just a little...

Your little posts pick apart sessions are the most childish things I have ever read, and you prove to be as childish as I am being now!

And yet you keep returning for more self abuse..

You say homosexuality doesn’t hurt anyone, well look at the STD’s being spread in the world, granted its not just gays.

Homosexuals are only about 10% MAYBE 15% of the whole human population.. you can sit there straight faced and blame the STD's spread globally by homosexuals? I'll bet you think that blacks are stupid and lazy and Jews are corrupt also? Please do tell!

Read and listen to the media how the homosexual’s community is one of the largest spreading this disease!

Your (of course) full of manure... The largest spread of all STD, including AIDS is in the straight community.. they of course are getting this on the way to church no doubt...

There are so many young these days that are being led to believe there is nothing wrong with this lifestyle, so quit saying no one is hurt with this!!!

There is nothing wrong with this.. and even if there were, its none of your nor my business. As long as the people engaging in this behavior are adults and harming no one physically, TOUGH!

Would you like your son to be a (edited), I think not!

Would that make me love my son any less or make me less proud of him? Again, it is you with the problem.

I would never trash another’s family member, but you get my drift!

I get your "draft".. its coming from the void in your skull...

And by the way thanks to your son for his service to his and our country!

of course you'd say the same thing to him / me if he were a homosexual? How about to the homosexual past and present who have and will lose their lives for people like you who think they deserve nothing..

You want to be a (edited), be my guest, just don’t subject the rest of us to watch or have to condone this immoral behavior in our society then having to pay survivor benefits later when the other homo dies!!

So if a homosexual soldier dies, his or her dependents should receive nothing? The damage that the heterosexuals are doing to society are massive and so overshadow the perceived misdoings by homosexuals that it's laughable. BTW dummy.. I've been married for 20 years (well past the average of the run of the mill American lemming) and am pretty secure in my sexuality.. you on the other hand seem pretty sure that you would have some problem "fighting the urge".

Just keep your friends in Okla(edited) on your (edited) ranch where you can really protect them!! :lol:

OK, just stop complaining about the heat when you stop by for your visits to quench your "thirst".

[trkntxn]

Totally against it. Goes against God, the Bible, Laws of humanity. Our Kids these days are screwed up enough without being taught that homosexuality is ok. Its not ok. Its perverted.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by trkntxn

Totally against it. Goes against God, the Bible, Laws of humanity. Our Kids these days are screwed up enough without being taught that homosexuality is ok. Its not ok. Its perverted.

So, Trkntxn,

Where is your moral indignation against pedophiles getting married??

I have not seen any ballot initiatives or state Constitutional Ammendments prohibiting sexual predators from getting married??

[Mackman]