[redsfan]

It sounds like we're going to go on and on and around in a BIG circle beating a dead horse and I'll continue as long as time allows or I get bored with it, whichever comes first, but here goes...

We ARE a democracy, the founders DID have a democracy in mind when this country, the Constitution and all foundations were established. The perfect world that you describe where elected representatives are there to represent ALL of their constituents is called communism or dictatorship. This will never happen otherwise we would not need elections. We live in a society where "majority rules" not "mob rules". The two have nothing to do with one another as was explained previously in this thread. My belief is that the founding fathers agreed with "majority rules" otherwise they would not have ever mentioned the word "elect" in the Constitution. I believe that they also had the foresight that the original laws were not an end-all, do-all, cover-all set of rules otherwise they would not have left any power to the States or the people.

I do believe that the 13th Amendment was a great idea, as I stated previously. It was an issue that was not broached in the original Constitution because consensus then was that it was OK to have slaves. The amendment was added to make a change, not nesessarily a "clarification". Just the same as allowing women to vote, I see that as more of a change than a "clarification". In my opinion, bigomy is the same thing. We had to create laws to say that one cannot do that, even though it does not personally hurt me or my marriage because others choose to do so. It was thought to be morally wrong and that's why it was made illegal.

My statement of "dealing with it" applied to me, not to blacks or even gays for that matter. I am just stating that if a law is passed that maybe I don't believe in or maybe it even infringes my rights and that is what the "majority" wanted I have no problem with that. You say that democracies are doomed from the start and I disagree. As a matter of fact I would love to see someone start anything let alone an entire country and say, "Ok, these 10 rules are what we will follow from now til the end of time. We will not be open to change and if we do have a vote the minority wins. Really they'll be no reason to have a vote because if 10% of the people want it then it will be done!"

You are absolutely right, it's great to be in the majority when you're living in a democracy.

[Fozzy]

It seems you know about as much of history as you do the constitution. We are NOT nor have we ever been a democracy and the founding fathers knew better than to make this one. it's a fact that democracies are doomed from the start and its been proven more than once. This country is and has been on the verge of democracy since the dumbing down of the populace through the ever lowering standards of the education system.

[Fozzy]

What I have a problem with is, just like I stated on the religion thread, is why I have to change what I believe in because it offends someone else.

you have rights under the constitution to do or not do as YOU wish. Do you not agree that everyone else (whether they agree with you or not) have the same rights?


They offend me, but I have to change to make them happy. Why? You want to be gay? Fine, but leave me and my family out of it.

Out of what? If you want to be straight or gay or a cross dressing unicyclist, be my guest.

Quit pushing your immoral values on me and my children, yes my children. My 15 yo son has been "hit on" in 2 different schools in the past year.

Did he accept the invitation? How is this any different than your teenage daughter being "hit on" by males? The simple answer is that your not interested all it takes is for you to say so. The fact that you feel fine imposing your "values" on other people who have the same rights as you tends to escape you.

There is a Gay/Lesbian Club in his school and it is advertised and meetings are put in the announcements. My son and his friends want to have a Bible club, but that is not allowed. Tell me why?

Maybe because being gay isn't a religion? There are plenty of churches of all flavors to hold such activities in.

Homosexuality is morally wrong. Why? Because the Bible says it is.

And the bible and Jesus is found in the constitution where?

You don't believe in the Bible? Tough - that's what It says and unfortunately too many people are going to find out the hard way that they are wrong. It's a very sad thing. Time is running out, whether you believe it or not.

As is their right, and as is your right.

I'm not going to argue my beliefs with you, because like the homosexuals, unless your ears and hearts are open to receive what I have to say, it is only going to come across as hatred, which when in it is done in love.

Malarky.. pure malarky. This isn't a theology. To see a theology look at the Taliban led government and the Great religious state of Iran.

[Slimland]

Originally Posted by Slimland

What makes man think he knows what God want's?

That is a good question, In the bible God speaks of what he wants for his children. For example "Love your neibor as yourself" that is a will of God!

God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for the exact thing we are speaking of. Did he give them a chance YES, he told Abraham "after some Jewing down" that if he found 10 Righteous fellows, He "GOD" would not burn it down. The only fellow that was found was Lot and his doughters and wife.

So 2 Angels let Lot and His family flea into the mountains. While God rained fire down from Heaven to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. This was done as an Example for those in the futur, who will deny God.
It's not realy the fact of what they where doing "which has somewhat to do with it" it was the fact that they denied God. For if it was what they where doing then Lot would have not been saved. Because the word of God said Every day Lot soul was vexed with what he had seen. The word vexed, meaning Tempted, therfor being greived that he felt that way, but he knew right from wrong and chose the right way instead of the wrong way. Think about this after he fled his wife looked back and was turned to ash, after being in the moutains his daughters got him drunk and had sex with him. Thats pretty bad! But God knew where Lots heart was!!

The post I made earlier on this thread, about Romans explain why people fall into the ways of debouchery against God.

He is loving and understanding that is why He gave His Son for Our Sin.
Concerning Moral and Basic right!
Morality itself comes from God, it shows the Laws written on our hearts. Basic right, was given by those laws, not to be imputed to Immorality.

You say your not a Christian, I respect that. What do you believe " if you don't mind me askin"? I will understan if you wish not to answer, I am just curiouse!!

Here I will requote myself. Exspecialy this in red.

[Fozzy]

WE do not live in the United States of god... nor is the law of the land decided by the bible. If it where decided by the American religious majority, we would all be required to answer to the pope. How do you think that would go over with the Southern Baptists?

[heavenbound]

Originally Posted by Fozzy

WE do not live in the United States of god... nor is the law of the land decided by the bible. If it where decided by the American religious majority, we would all be required to answer to the pope. How do you think that would go over with the Southern Baptists?

Not very well Fozzy, being from the Southern Baptist "religion" and religion is all it is, man made. As for as answering to the pope, don't think so, or the virgin mary for that matter, only Christ. Good point and well taken Fozzy. Just my two cents on this topic.[/u]

[Slimland]

Originally Posted by Fozzy

WE do not live in the United States of god... nor is the law of the land decided by the bible. If it where decided by the American religious majority, we would all be required to answer to the pope. How do you think that would go over with the Southern Baptists?

In God we Trust!!!
Where do you think that came from?
So are you saying Fozzy, that taken God out of the schools was good?
That the very things this country was found on was on the teachings of the bible.
You take the foundation out from underneath a structure that structure will fall. That is why this country is going down the drain. The belief's this country where found on, is being pulled out from underneath it, by people who think God needs to be removed, because it don't give everyone the same freedom , you take the foundation you take the freedom. You seem to think that we are expressing our beliefs on you and your kind, when actually we are defending, our belief that made this country so great. So who is pushing there belief on who?

It was well balanced, now it is not. Even if we where to put God back in the system, it would be organized religion, therefor we would be no better than the Holy Roman Empire that Killed not only the non-christian but the real Christians as well. The only way now to have a government with religious values now, will be when the LORD JESUS CHRIST returns.
The government that actually came from God was a Monarchy, but God knew that man was not capable of such a feat since sin is in our flesh, but Jesus Christ the Just judge is the only way to have the perfect government.
At one time the U.S.A had a good government, but now with some people who love the pleasure's of sin than the righteousness of God, want there sins out so everyone can glory in them so they don't feel so ashamed, it kinda goes if everyone is doing it it can't be wrong. That's what the Pharisees did, and Jesus told them they where a brood of vipers "big words back then". Now where in the same boat, as them, we have our own Pharisees trying to make us accept there way of life, so they won't feel so bad about there own sin. So now you tell me, who pushing who's belief on who?

[yoopr]

little off topic here but we're a Republic-NOT a democracy.
Carry On

[bulldog2036]

Tell you what..lets just scrap the constitution and start all over to accomodate all the "turd burglars" and "clam lickers" since they are the only ones who deserve rights because they are "different"....the rest of us must capitulate as not to offend...kick GOD out of schools and let the FAGS run the place...is this the America you want?...If it is find yourself another planet to sate your immoral yearnings...INCREDIBLE!!!!!!

[yoopr]

Originally Posted by bulldog2036

Tell you what..lets just scrap the constitution and start all over to accomodate all the "turd burglars" and "clam lickers" since they are the only ones who deserve rights because they are "different"....the rest of us must capitulate as not to offend...kick GOD out of schools and let the FAGS run the place...is this the America you want?...If it is find yourself another planet to sate your immoral yearnings...INCREDIBLE!!!!!!

:shock: :shock: :P