[Snowman7]

They took down JoePa's statue.

[Mr. Ford95]

And I love<sarcasm> the admin's reason as to why.............we want to remove it to close that dark chapter and not re-open wounds............that's exactly what just happened by doing this. It doesn't make everything better suddenly for the victims. JoePa did not hurt those kids, JoePa did not witness it. They simply put it in storage so it may eventually be put back in place, never should have been taken down.

Of course I do believe that tomorrow morning PSU will no longer have NCAA football for a few years. Big announcement is being made tomorrow to announce their punishment by the NCAA with zero investigation and zero NCAA rules being broken. If PSU is given the death penalty then the NCAA will show just how broken the system is, they should go back and give Miami, OSU and USC the death penalty also. OSU was caught up in a Fed investigation, some at OSU knowingly tried to hide it. Not sure if USC knew of any Fed involvement or not for their numerous issues. All 3 broke numerous NCAA rules but escaped the death penalty even though they have a history of problems.

[Snowman7]

So then you believe...

A. Joe Paterno had no knowledge for 15 years or more of Jerry Sandusky being a pedophile?
B. Joe Paterno was not involved in a cover up to keep Sandusky's crimes hidden in a closet in order to protect the football program?
and
C. Joe Paterno's (and the other admins) failure to act didn't allow several more boys to be molested over the next few years?

Because I'll tell ya I believe it all to be true. I told you so 8 months ago. I have no knowledge of NCAA sanctions but I have no sympathy for PSU, it's football program, or the legacy of JoePa. They deserve whatever they get. If he were still alive he'd be facing child endangerment charges like the other admins.

If it werent for Jerry Sandusky Joe would have died a great man and a great coach. But power, money, fame and football blurred his judgement. Now the University and his family will pay the price.

Stop drinking the kool-aid bro.

[golfhobo]

Just curious, Snowman. What would your opinion be if YOUR son was a sophmore on the team... with a scholarship that would lead to his MBA ?

[Snowman7]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Just curious, Snowman. What would your opinion be if YOUR son was a sophmore on the team... with a scholarship that would lead to his MBA ?

I'm not sure what you're getting at Hobo but my opinion of what the coach and the admins did wouldn't change. Are you asking would I pull my kid out of school? Or should I look the other way for personal gain? Should I soften my stance on any possible NCAA sanctions? What are you asking? And I guess while your at it maybe you could state who's camp you're in?

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Snowman7

I'm not sure what you're getting at Hobo but my opinion of what the coach and the admins did wouldn't change. Are you asking would I pull my kid out of school? Or should I look the other way for personal gain? Should I soften my stance on any possible NCAA sanctions? What are you asking? And I guess while your at it maybe you could state who's camp you're in?

I guess my question was about the part I highlighted. You said you had no sympathy for the school or the football program. IF they had gotten the death penalty, wouldn't certain students lose the opportunity to get an education if they were at PSU on a football scholarship?

Not sure if there is a camp that I can join, lol. I believe that anyone who knew about it should be fired and prosecuted. I just don't agree with punishing the school OR the innocent players for what others did.

I just saw the press conference awhile ago on the NCAA sanctions. I'm glad they didn't get the death penalty, but I don't like the suspension of bowl game participation. NO good player with NFL aspirations will go near PSU for years. This is punishing the players, the program and the community for things that... as Mr. Ford pointed out.... had nothing to do with NCAA rules or violations of recruiting, etc.

As for Joe, my feelings are mixed. If he indeed covered it up because he KNEW it could damage his program and his legacy, then he got what he deserved. IF, however, he was just a confused old man who only thought of football, and thought he had told the proper officials and then went back to concentrating on winning games?.... then, I think his legacy should not be tarnished the way it has been.

I'm not a hero worshipper of Joe PA or the PSU program, so I really have no dog in the fight. I'm only thinking of the "fictional" sophomore player who may have reasons to NOT want to transfer to another school, but should be afforded all the rights and rituals of college football and college life.

So... if the camps are yours and Mr. Ford's, well.... lol... I guess I'm a Centrist.

[Snowman7]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

I guess my question was about the part I highlighted. You said you had no sympathy for the school or the football program. IF they had gotten the death penalty, wouldn't certain students lose the opportunity to get an education if they were at PSU on a football scholarship?

Any time a school is punished they always include bowl bans and limit scholarships. Thats nothing new. So if other schools have already been punished the same way then so should PSU. Now is it fair to punish incoming players? I dont know. I know these schools are so rich and powerful its hard to get through to them with a strong message. As for what I and my hypothetical son LOL would do there's no way to answer that without it being real and knowing what all our options are. I guess if he's that talented he could go where ever he wants and if not he still gets to stay on with his scholarship.

Its obvious to me the school knows what happened. They paid for the independent investigation and they are not fighting the NCAA. They already signed off on it. And if the the school knew then Joe knew. He was the most powerful man by far on campus. His family may be protesting but they are only trying to protect their money and assets. They know the civil suits are coming.

The whole thing is very sad really. I say again Joe was a great man. But he made a huge mistake in judgement. I think its fair that he loses wins and respect. I have empathy for him and his family, just not sympathy.

The glory of football was placed above the safety of children. If Sandusky was a History professor and not a football coach I'll bet he would have been exposed, fired, and prosecuted years ago.

[Mr. Ford95]

Show me where JoePa knowingly covered up anything. Per the FBI investigation, not the Freeh report, Joe did what he was supposed to do per the school when he was told by McQueary. Sandusky was no longer a coach there when McQueary informed JoePa. WTF would you think or do if a friend you've known a long time was suddenly accused of this? Would you immediately sever ties like a punk or be a true friend and try to find out what's going on?

Knowing the announcement the NCAA might as well have called it the death penalty, it's going to be at least 10 years before PSU football gets back on the map.

[GMAN]

It is really easy to blame someone who is dead. I don't see how taking any wins that he had over the years is helping anyone. All it does is punish those students and players who did what they were supposed to do. This is so wrong, just as it was wrong to take his statue down. They have not proven that Joe Paterno did anything wrong, yet they are going after him because he cannot defend himself. And from what I understand, they guy who originally made the charge isn't even sure that he saw anything that was inappropriate. I believe that he stated that he isn't sure exactly what he saw. Why didn't he do more in the beginning, if he thought that something was going on? He waited for more than a decade to come out and make his charges public.

[Mr. Ford95]

Exactly GMAN.

The death penalty would have been better in this case for PSU, shut down football for 2 years and then move on. Instead they basically have gotten a 4 year death penalty here, no recruit is going to go there in the next 2-3 years, it will be nothing but "walk-on" types if they decide to play on. After the whippings they will receive no recruit 4 years from now is going to look at PSU and want to go there. They prolly won't even be in a conference anymore. The largest college stadium in the country will end up being partially torn down because the seats won't be needed. I say at least 10 years before they get back on the map, SMU wasn't exactly a small time team when they got shutdown for a year(ended up being 2 years by a school decision) but it's taken them about 25 years just to return to the map. PSU has 4 years and are a major team..........might be 20 years for them if they ever return.