[Fozzy]

Originally Posted by lilchemmaster

As usual, it's another case of talking about something you have no idea. There is a reason I formally agreed to take that 240-hour course. My employment with the company will fall under different terms than normal candidates. I'll be joining a certain program within the company, that is a recent program. Therefore, my driving with Swift, and taking the 240-hour course, will be sufficient.

I have and I'm sure others here have seen plenty of the generic "you". So you've gone through CDL training.. obviously a sub par performance.. You attended training at a carrier.. another case of sub standard performance linked with a lot of damage in a short period of time.... None of which you consider note worthy or worse yet, completely none of your fault. Now you've come up with another scheme.. train (pay for) for a CDL again (yes thats what this is) in ANOTHER 240 hours (which is what you've probably already done) in the hopes that somehow magically the lights will come on OR that some carrier will see you as something that you are not (A safe and proficient trainee with the desire to become a company driver and be an asset instead of a liability).

I've trained hundreds of people and there are a very small percentage of them are / were just like you. They think that if they train and train and train and someone spends an eternity waiting for them to get with the program, they will eventually be able to to what the VAST majority of new drivers have done with the standard amount of training. Throughout the process they do not progress with their fellow trainees, they BLAME.. They blame the trainers, they blame the equipment, they blame the course, they blame the weather.. heck, I had one moron blame the fact that he was worthless on the make of the van that we picked him up at the hotel in on his reason for failure.. that and the limited selection that the hotel offered for breakfast.

You could train for a thousand hours and there is always going to be one common issue with your failure.... everyone here with the exeption of you seems to know what that is. Again.. common for the wanabe who does not possess the average skill set required to succeed.

[lilchemmaster]

Seven people were fired, from the Jonestown, PA Terminal, on the same day as me. All of those people had their own trucks for less than three months. That means, they were all students around the same time. Different trainers, same outcome. Most had minor instances that they got fired for. One of those people was out of the Ocala, Fl Terminal. He had just 10-weeks of solo driving when he was fired.

It wasn't freakin' training. Training is watching over someone to make sure they understand what is needed to do the job, not sitting their yelling and b*tching, not sitting their on the phone majority of the time, and not hiding out in the back bunk. If that's what you call training, you must have never worked for an actual business. Because, their people stand there and watch to make sure what you're doing is correct, they answer questions when asked, and they ask questions to make sure you understand what is expected of you. That's TRAINING. Apparently, you don't know what the meaning of the word is or understand what is expected of a real trainer.

I'll still be out on the road, no matter how you try and spin it. Because, you don't even want to acknowledge that there are sh*t-for-brains trainers out there and push to show that a f*ck-stick company, such as Swift, can do no wrong. That's where the problem really lies, with people like you putting your head under your pillow just so you don't have to see the truth that students are really faced with. And, I'd hate to be one of your students. I would have probably left you at a rest area just to get your Holier-than-thou attitude, about how trainers can do no wrong, out of the truck I was driving.

[Fozzy]

Originally Posted by lilchemmaster

And, I'd hate to be one of your students. I would have probably left you at a rest area just to get your Holier-than-thou attitude, about how trainers can do no wrong, out of the truck I was driving.

But the question is.. How many things would you have struck on the way out of the rest area?

[Orangetxguy]

Originally Posted by lilchemmaster

Seven people were fired, from the Jonestown, PA Terminal, on the same day as me. All of those people had their own trucks for less than three months. That means, they were all students around the same time. Different trainers, same outcome. Most had minor instances that they got fired for. One of those people was out of the Ocala, Fl Terminal. He had just 10-weeks of solo driving when he was fired.

It wasn't freakin' training. Training is watching over someone to make sure they understand what is needed to do the job, not sitting their yelling and b*tching, not sitting their on the phone majority of the time, and not hiding out in the back bunk. If that's what you call training, you must have never worked for an actual business. Because, their people stand there and watch to make sure what you're doing is correct, they answer questions when asked, and they ask questions to make sure you understand what is expected of you. That's TRAINING. Apparently, you don't know what the meaning of the word is or understand what is expected of a real trainer.

I'll still be out on the road, no matter how you try and spin it. Because, you don't even want to acknowledge that there are sh*t-for-brains trainers out there and push to show that a f*ck-stick company, such as Swift, can do no wrong. That's where the problem really lies, with people like you putting your head under your pillow just so you don't have to see the truth that students are really faced with. And, I'd hate to be one of your students. I would have probably left you at a rest area just to get your Holier-than-thou attitude, about how trainers can do no wrong, out of the truck I was driving.

Dude! You simply do not get it. Everybody who has had any experience AT ALL, knows what the issues with training programs at companies like Swift have. What you have failed to understand, is that a majority of the people whom have read this thread, even those whom have not replied to you, see that you have failed to take responsibility for YOURSELF and YOUR ACTIONS.

1; You had a backing accident while your "Trainer" was outside talking on his phone instead of paying attention to you and the situation you were getting yourself into.

You failed to STOP the truck you were maneuvering and get out of it, walk back to the rear of the trailer and assess your situation. YES, the man training you should have been instructing you on how to correct your steering, but the decision to continue moving that truck and eventually ending up having that backing accident was yours. Plain and simple.

2; You hit a structure because "Your GPS" told you that you HAD to cross that bridge. EXCUSE Me? NO. You hit a structure while moving forward because you did not take the time to research your route from pickup to delivery. Before computers and before GPS, millions of brand new truck drivers were able to drive from point A to point B, because they had hand written directions and a road map.

Maybe I am just to damned old. I don't know. Maybe the Boy Scouts don't exist anymore. Hell.......I don't know. The Boy Scouts are were I learned to read a map and to navigate my way around the country. That is 45 years ago.

3; You had an accident while moving forward on private property. Ok. You didn't learn how to back properly and you blame that on your "training". Somebody tells you to drive around the lot and go to a section where there are two empty spots side by side. Fine. You do that. But you clip the fender of a truck, causing damage, with your truck. You blame some guy "parked Illegally".

Dude! Why the hell didn't you just "man-up" and ask one of the veteran drivers that were right there with you for some advise? All you had to do was ask, and you would have had a dozen different drivers climb out of their trucks and walk over and help you understand the basics of "Backing". That was all you needed to do.

I have over 34 years of driving experience. Hell. 3 or 4 years ago I asked for some assistance backing into a tight parking spot, at a Flying J down by Tampa Florida. I was tired. I was out of hours and the dang Qualcomm was squawking at me, and on top of that I was running a fever. Instead of driving around looking for a spot at a different truck stop, I took the only one available at that J, and when I couldn't quite get myself squared into it, I asked another driver to loan me his eyes and help me get backed in. 2 minutes later I was parked safely, and I met a decent person.

Man-up. Accept the fact that YOU failed yourself.

[lilchemmaster]

Originally Posted by Orangetxguy

Dude! You simply do not get it. Everybody who has had any experience AT ALL, knows what the issues with training programs at companies like Swift have. What you have failed to understand, is that a majority of the people whom have read this thread, even those whom have not replied to you, see that you have failed to take responsibility for YOURSELF and YOUR ACTIONS.

1; You had a backing accident while your "Trainer" was outside talking on his phone instead of paying attention to you and the situation you were getting yourself into.

You failed to STOP the truck you were maneuvering and get out of it, walk back to the rear of the trailer and assess your situation. YES, the man training you should have been instructing you on how to correct your steering, but the decision to continue moving that truck and eventually ending up having that backing accident was yours. Plain and simple.

2; You hit a structure because "Your GPS" told you that you HAD to cross that bridge. EXCUSE Me? NO. You hit a structure while moving forward because you did not take the time to research your route from pickup to delivery. Before computers and before GPS, millions of brand new truck drivers were able to drive from point A to point B, because they had hand written directions and a road map.

Maybe I am just to damned old. I don't know. Maybe the Boy Scouts don't exist anymore. Hell.......I don't know. The Boy Scouts are were I learned to read a map and to navigate my way around the country. That is 45 years ago.

3; You had an accident while moving forward on private property. Ok. You didn't learn how to back properly and you blame that on your "training". Somebody tells you to drive around the lot and go to a section where there are two empty spots side by side. Fine. You do that. But you clip the fender of a truck, causing damage, with your truck. You blame some guy "parked Illegally".

Dude! Why the hell didn't you just "man-up" and ask one of the veteran drivers that were right there with you for some advise? All you had to do was ask, and you would have had a dozen different drivers climb out of their trucks and walk over and help you understand the basics of "Backing". That was all you needed to do.

I have over 34 years of driving experience. Hell. 3 or 4 years ago I asked for some assistance backing into a tight parking spot, at a Flying J down by Tampa Florida. I was tired. I was out of hours and the dang Qualcomm was squawking at me, and on top of that I was running a fever. Instead of driving around looking for a spot at a different truck stop, I took the only one available at that J, and when I couldn't quite get myself squared into it, I asked another driver to loan me his eyes and help me get backed in. 2 minutes later I was parked safely, and I met a decent person.

Man-up. Accept the fact that YOU failed yourself.

I didn't have a GPS. I was trying to actually follow the directions that I was given by Swift. And, don't say that I'm blaming Swift for that. I HAVE ADMITTED THAT I MADE MISTAKES. And, one of those mistakes was that I missed my turn, south of State College, PA, because I did NOT realize that Hwy. 22 was also Hwy. 322, at that juncture of the trip. That was my fault. I HAVE stated that previously. Read the posts again and you will see. I took responsibility for my actions on that trip. Do you not understand what responsibility is? It is the fact that I screwed up and I did admit it.

Really? Talk to older drivers? I did that. I got an a** chewing for it too, by Mark. In fact, when we were at Quaker State, picking up a load of oil, he nearly threw me out of his truck for calling the person that I had always called, because Mark wouldn't give me any answers. Mark continued to tell other drivers, while at the Denver Terminal, not to give me any answers. I even asked one of the other drivers to take me on as a student. I did what I could to get answers. And, the answer I got from Mark, when we were at Quaker State, about why he wouldn't answer my questions, was: "I don't tell you because I want to see how you react in certain situations." That's a fact. I couldn't get the answers that I wanted and needed answered. I did what I could to get the knowledge that I needed to do the job properly.

If you notice, there was a longer period of time between the 2nd and 3rd acc/inc than there was between the 1st and 2nd. It's because I was able to speak with someone I trusted and knew would give me the answers to the questions I asked. So, don't say that I didn't do what was necessary to try and find out what I needed to know. I contact Al a number of times to ask for help, usually by Qualcomm because I usually didn't have time to sit and see if he'd answer the phone, and sometimes I'd get answers and sometimes I wouldn't. Therefore, I chose to call someone that I knew would provide the answers I asked.

[Fozzy]

Or maybe like what you presented here, you were given the answers, you didn't like them / ignored them and you figured you'd keep on asking others till you got the answer that agreed with your low experience level. Whomever you are asking these questions from and are giving you "answers" is doing you a diservice. You seem distracted, untrusting and unable to take instruction that you disagree with.

[lilchemmaster]

Originally Posted by Fozzy

Or maybe like what you presented here, you were given the answers, you didn't like them / ignored them and you figured you'd keep on asking others till you got the answer that agreed with your low experience level. Whomever you are asking these questions from and are giving you "answers" is doing you a diservice. You seem distracted, untrusting and unable to take instruction that you disagree with.

Wrong, when I was with those f*ck-a**, so-called, trainers, I DID NOT get questions answered. Mark's comment of, "You're not at that point", beside the one mentioned above, should tell you that. Eric stated, in front of many of the drivers in Denver, "You were an experiment and I forgot things that I should have told you." Considering, he had NEVER trained anyone before. That was when we met up, while I was running solo. Denver's Terminal told me that I was supposed to take I-70, instead of I-80, to take a load to a Cosco, just south of I-80. Therefore, I took longer than I should have and had a load taken off of me, after running all night long. Whereas, I should have just gone I-80 and said the hell with it. So, yeah, I made that mistake, as well, not following my own instincts on taking a route that I thought was faster.

[Fozzy]

Originally Posted by lilchemmaster

Wrong, when I was with those f*ck-a**, so-called, trainers, I DID NOT get questions answered. Mark's comment of, "You're not at that point", beside the one mentioned above, should tell you that.

I’ve told many students that same exact thing. Normally when their skills were poor and they were asking about things that they had no business even asking. When a student is given a task, they need to focus on that rather than something that they’d rather discuss. Training progression is up to the trainer. Not the student.

Originally Posted by lilchemmaster

Eric stated, in front of many of the drivers in Denver, "You were an experiment and I forgot things that I should have told you." Considering, he had NEVER trained anyone before. That was when we met up, while I was running solo.

And? Eric sounds rather human and of course was an inexperienced trainer.. But even if he was an inexperienced trainer he was an experienced driver who tried to train some newebie as an “experiment” and frankly no one who gets into training automatically knows if they CAN or will want to train people.. your instant scapegoating of him and your obvious failure would probably make someone who could have potentially been an outstanding trainer reconsider and leave other deserving trainees without one. Again, you don’t have the experience level to know or judge anything relating to driving yet you are rather venomous and hateful when it comes time to critique others. The “so called” trainers and F*ck-a** as you call them have something that you don’t.. it called a job and a career.

Originally Posted by lilchemmaster

Denver's Terminal told me that I was supposed to take I-70, instead of I-80, to take a load to a Cosco, just south of I-80. Therefore, I took longer than I should have and had a load taken off of me, after running all night long. Whereas, I should have just gone I-80 and said the hell with it. So, yeah, I made that mistake, as well, not following my own instincts on taking a route that I thought was faster.

You think that story is going to fly? Really? It sounds like you made it through training, tested out (as in check ride, finished orientation and was a fully qualified new driver. To blame the trainers for this when they had nothing to do with your problems when you were on your own is just rather cowardly.

[lilchemmaster]

Originally Posted by Fozzy

I’ve told many students that same exact thing. Normally when their skills were poor and they were asking about things that they had no business even asking. When a student is given a task, they need to focus on that rather than something that they’d rather discuss. Training progression is up to the trainer. Not the student.

And? Eric sounds rather human and of course was an inexperienced trainer.. But even if he was an inexperienced trainer he was an experienced driver who tried to train some newebie as an “experiment” and frankly no one who gets into training automatically knows if they CAN or will want to train people.. your instant scapegoating of him and your obvious failure would probably make someone who could have potentially been an outstanding trainer reconsider and leave other deserving trainees without one. Again, you don’t have the experience level to know or judge anything relating to driving yet you are rather venomous and hateful when it comes time to critique others. The “so called” trainers and F*ck-a** as you call them have something that you don’t.. it called a job and a career.

You think that story is going to fly? Really? It sounds like you made it through training, tested out (as in check ride, finished orientation and was a fully qualified new driver. To blame the trainers for this when they had nothing to do with your problems when you were on your own is just rather cowardly.

What you said about Mark and Eric and training just doesn't cut it. And the following shows why.

The way it would look, when proving that Mark and Eric were f*ck-a** trainers, by showing that they were provided with the proper information to do their jobs correctly, as trainers:

Have you ever been required by Swift Transportation to take a course on, "How to properly train a student driver"? Yes.

During that course, "What were you instructed to do?" Their answer.

"Were you given any materials to help you be a more effective and efficient trainer and help see that the person is properly trained?" Yes, I was provided with a Training Manual.

What kind of information did that Training Manual contain? Well, it contained a weekly schedule of what, and when, a person should be taught and the information necessary for the student to do the job correctly.

Were you supposed to be using the Training Manual and the Weekly Schedule? Yes.

Were you using the Training Manual and Weekly Schedule? Absolutely NOT!

Why didn't you use the Training Manual and Weekly Schedule? Their answer.

Why do you believe that Swift Transportation would want you to be using that Training Manual? 1) To ensure that each-and-every student was properly, and equally, trained. 2) To ensure that we [trainers] don't leave out key information. 3) To make sure that the trainers are doing the job that is required, by making the student and trainer hand in their Weekly Schedules. This way, Swift has a way to hold the trainer accountable for what is, or is not, being done. 4) To properly track the progress and effectively evaluate the student. And, 5) In the event that a student requests or needs another trainer, the new trainer will know exactly where the student is along in their training.

Do you believe that you would have been a more effective trainer, had you used the Training Manual and Weekly Schedule? Yes, or most likely.



As you speak of my trainers, Mark and Eric, you fail to recognize that they were required to take a course on how to train a student. Also, you fail to recognize that they were required, as trainers, to use the Manual and Schedules that were provided. Therefore, Mark and Eric failed at their responsibilities to do their job as required. And, there's no way of getting around it. So, even though Eric was new at training, he was still provided the necessary information to do the job effectively. Therefore, he FAILED miserably to do what was required. Because, if he wasn't planning on following the Rules and Regulations, set up by Swift Transportation, to be a trainer, he should have never done it. And, yes, I know they had to sign the sheet that they were provided the Training Manual and Weekly Schedule and that they would follow it. Therefore, Eric had absolutely no reason as to why the proper information was not provided to me. And, that goes for Mark, as well. Because, he had the exact same information, as did Eric. So, yes, Eric was a f*ck-a** trainer, just as was Mark. Because, they failed to do what was required of them.

Beside that, "If they weren't willing to do what is truly meant to be actual training and providing the proper information, they should have never been getting paid the extra money for the miles I drove. I should have been the one to get the extra pay. Considering, they thought it was too hard to follow a Training Manual and Weekly Schedule. And, they left out important information, that was an ABSOLUTE necessity, for me to do my job." Plain and Simple.

Also, if, I, the student, is the only one responsible for what happens while driving the truck, even with the trainer there, as you seem to claim, then I should be the only one getting paid for the miles I drive. And, the trainer should get paid for the miles they drive, ONLY. Since, they don't have to do any actual TRAINING, as you make it sound, they shouldn't get any exta money. Wow, that sounds like a "Team" to me, not a trainer and student. Wait, that's what Eric put us down as, even, before I got in with him. And, Mark put us down as a "Team" about 2 1/2 weeks into what was supposed to be the TRAINING period. Yet, they got paid for the miles driven by me, as well as their regular pay.

So, let's see. The student is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens, while they are "driving" the truck; the trainer is there, but doesn't have to actually do any TRAINING; and he/she gets paid for the miles of the student as well as his/her regular pay. WOW!!! The trainers are getting a pretty good deal, wouldn't you say? Well, with that kind of incentive, for not having to follow the Rules and Regulation, by following the Training Manual and Weekly Schedule, which were set up for TRAINING students, why isn't everyone a trainer? Sounds like a way to get good money for doing ABSOLUTELY nothing, except yelling and b*tching, hiding out in the bunk, talking on the phone to their mistresses, and failing to answer questions when asked.

[Fozzy]

As you speak of my trainers, Mark and Eric, you fail to recognize that they were required to take a course on how to train a student. Also, you fail to recognize that they were required, as trainers, to use the Manual and Schedules that were provided. Therefore, Mark and Eric failed at their responsibilities to do their job as required.

Complete twaddle.. I always find it ironic that people who get run off from trucking companies are expert and fully knowledgable on everyone else's job with the exception of their own. At some point you attended a driving school and there you were required to learn the safe legal way to operate a tractor trailer and attain enough skill to pass a state CDL skills test. The point that the trainers received you, you were supposed to have enough skill to operate the truck is a safe legal manner. YOU failed. There was no amount of training that could have saved a poor and initiative driver from getting in accidents. You were a SOLO driver at that point. At what point do the trainers not receive the blame. While you were on the trainers truck and were in accidents do you assume that the trainers receive no blame? Really? I think this is yet another case of someone (you) making things up about the parts you are ignorant of to make the story fit to excuse your poor performance and lack of general skill behind the wheel.

And, there's no way of getting around it. So, even though Eric was new at training, he was still provided the necessary information to do the job effectively.

Had their training been so horrible, how where you able to acquire the skills needed to test out and get your own tractor assigned as a solo driver? For some odd reason, you seem to think that your trainers were there to magically give you common sense and years of experience without you working much in the process. You were obviously worse than a blank slate. You were someone who no matter how much training was written on the slate. someone in the period of time you were away from the truck, cleaned the slate. You retained nothing it seems.

Therefore, Eric had absolutely no reason as to why the proper information was not provided to me. And, that goes for Mark, as well. Because, he had the exact same information, as did Eric. So, yes, Eric was a f*ck-a** trainer, just as was Mark. Because, they failed to do what was required of them.

So in a thousand words or less what was this secret tidbit of information that they both withheld from you that somehow made your running into things and getting lost their fault. There IS no secret information that could have done this as what you did is commonly covered in the first few moments you got into a truck in a school.. Rule #1.. don’t run into things.

So, let's see. The student is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens, while they are "driving" the truck; the trainer is there, but doesn't have to actually do any TRAINING; and he/she gets paid for the miles of the student as well as his/her regular pay. WOW!!! The trainers are getting a pretty good deal, wouldn't you say?

Not when assigned extremely poorly skilled students. I have had them, and it’s a nightmare. You quickly realize that no matter what you do, the student will never be a driver or even be in the industry within a matter of weeks. They didn’t want to be one, they will never pick up the skills and even the attitude that would make them successful and they will flail around and just never end up being more than a wannabe. You keep babbling and using the excuse that they didn’t answer some question.. you are hiding something.. There is no question that is relevant unless the question they refused or couldn’t answer was “how many chances will this company give me when I continually screw up”.

I'll leave you and your whine fest thread with this declaration.. You will NEVER make it as a professional driver. You cannot do it and you're a danger to yourself, the general motoring public and a liability nightmare to any company that would take a chance on hiring you. I wish you good luck, but that goes to anyone who would encounter you coming in the opposite direction.