[Rat]

Ok say I start my day and and end up sitting for 2 hours waiting before I can even start geting loaded.

Then I drive to my final destination and get unloaded.

Does this 2 hours count against my on duty time or can I use it as berth time and take an 8 and be good to go for another 14/11 the next day?

I quess what I am saying is the run that I am doing sucks up all of 14 hours do to loading, unloading and driving but I usually have to sit for 2 hours waiting before I can even back up and start loading.


I did some searching on the net and all I could find is that I can split my berth time as long as one of the berth sections is no less then 8 hours.

[Drew10]

Split sleeper....Minimum 8hrs line 2, and Minimum 2hrs line 1 or 2.
The 2hour line 1 or 2 does not stop the 14hr clock. The 8hr line 2 will stop and reset the clock to the hours you had when you started the 8hr line 2.

[Rat]

I start my day Line one empty

Line 2 goes to 6:00

Down to line 4 to 6:30

Up to line 3 till 11:30

Up to line 2 till 1:30

Down to line 4 till 2:30

Up to line 3 till 7:00

Down to line 4 till 8:00

Up to line 2 for ?????

How long must I sit at line 2 before I can start my new day and how many hours did I use against my 14 hour day acording to HOS?

Did I use my 14 or did I only use 12?

[Drew10]

Originally Posted by Rat

I start my day Line one empty

Line 2 goes to 6:00 Beginning of your duty day 0600

Down to line 4 to 6:30 on duty not driving .5hrs counts against your 70

Up to line 3 till 11:30 drove 5hrs

Up to line 2 till 1:30 sleeper 2hrs (beginning of possible split. 14hr clock still running)

Down to line 4 till 2:30 on duty not driving 1hr, counts against your 70

Up to line 3 till 7:00 drove for 4.5 hrs (9.5hrs total driving)

Down to line 4 till 8:00 on duty not driving 1hr, counts against your 70

Up to line 2 for ????? Minimum 8hrs for split line 2 only or 10hrs for full break combination line 1 and/or 2

How long must I sit at line 2 before I can start my new day and how many hours did I use against my 14 hour day acording to HOS?

Did I use my 14 or did I only use 12?

You started your duty day at 0600 and ended the day at 2000, thats 14hrs. 2hrs line 1 or 2 will not stop the 14hr clock

[Rawlco]

Do you mean that you park for the night at the shipper and log the time from when you wake up until you get loaded as on duty? I personally do NOT start my clock unless I move the truck on the road. While the rules state that any time you spend waiting is technically on duty I only log 30 minutes of line 4 to load or unload before I start driving otherwise I would be on duty 24-7 practically.

Now if you have to log some drive time to get to the shipper then split logging isn't going to save you much. It will allow you to start your day earlier but you will not have a full 11 and 14 available at the beginning of the day.

Warning! The following instructions on Split Sleeper Berth may cause headaches, confusion, double vision, and general rage about government doublespeak. If you are taking any medications consult your Doctor before proceeding!

Warning! These statements have not yet been approved by GolfHobo, the official corrector of such statements.

With split logging you can take 8 hours on line 2 in the sleeper berth and that will PAUSE your clocks. This needs to be matched with another break of 2 hours or more to get a complete 10 hours BUT the rules for calculating your 11 and 14 hour clocks get a bit difficult to explain.

Lets take one specific example that I will make up. Statements that follow apply ONLY to the example provided. If you start your day at 8am and drive for one hour to get to your shipper You then log two hours off duty or sleeper followed by half a hour load and pti on line 4. Your 14 hour clock still ends at 10 pm regardless of how many breaks you take. During the remainder of your 14 you log 9 driving hours ending at 10 pm. Then you take 8 hours in the sleeper. This brings us to 6 am but you do not have a full 11 and 14 available. You need to subtract from your clocks the amount of time you spent since the end of your previous break. So since your previous break you used 11 hours of your 14 hour clock, and from 11 am and 10 pm you drove 9 hours, leaving you with 2 hours available to drive within a three hour window. This means in this example you can drive up to two hours until 9am. If you want to drive more today you need to take another break of two hours or more and you may take that break at any time. After you complete another break of two hours or more your 14 hour clock will go from 6 am to 8pm and you may only drive 11 hours within that. Your two hour break (or any break) does count towards your 14 hour clock, while 8 or more hours in the sleeper does not.

So once you start the day after only taking 8 hours in the sleeper you are locked in to taking a two hour break to complete the split even if they get you loaded quicker than that. Something else interesting to note is that if You start Monday at 8am, then use the split rules Tuesday you will start at 6am. If you continue to split (you can take a ten hour break at any time to break the split pattern) then Wednesday will start at 4am, Thursday at 2am, and Friday at midnight. So it really screws with your sleep patterns if you use it excessively.

I have a more thorough explanation prepared and I can't find it here on CAD anymore, so I will link to it at:
http://www.thetruckersreport.com/tru...explained.html

[Rawlco]

Now that you have posted this I can work with this example. Again this applies only to this specific example.

Originally Posted by Rat

I start my day Line one empty

Line 2 goes to 6:00

Down to line 4 to 6:30

Up to line 3 till 11:30

Up to line 2 till 1:30

Down to line 4 till 2:30

Up to line 3 till 7:00

Down to line 4 till 8:00

Up to line 2 for ?????

How long must I sit at line 2 before I can start my new day and how many hours did I use against my 14 hour day acording to HOS?

Did I use my 14 or did I only use 12?

You used your entire 14 hour clock.
You used up 12 hours of your 70 hours.

Since you took the two hour break you are elegible for split logging. Lets say you take an 8 hour sleeper berth break until 4am. Since the end of your previous break at 1:30 you used 6.5 hours of your 14 and 4.5 hours of drive time. That leaves you with 7.5 hours on your 14 and 6.5 hours available to drive, so you can drive 6.5 hours before 11:30. You may take the two hour break early but you must take it before you drive more than 6.5 hours and you must not drive after 11:30 without taking the 2 hour break.

Once you have taken that two hour break your 14 hour clock goes from 4am to 6pm and you can only drive 11 hours within that.

Does this help any?

[Rat]

Here is the deal, I haul raw product from Manitoba to southcentral North Dakota. 99% of the time there are many other trucks waiting at the same warehouse to get loaded and it can take up to two hours sometimes before I can get loaded. It is usually a 4 to 5 1/2 hour drive from the stop in North Dakota to the warehouse in Manitoba. We have a certain amount of time to get the product to the processing facility or it may go bad. We MUST do a load a day. Many times we have to wait for hours before we can even unload also due to the processing plant being full of product or what ever.

There is no way to shorten up the driving time due to weight restrictions in Manitoba that keep us off of many roads even when empty (65% restrictions on many roads makes any truck too heavy on the steer axles even empty).

Now mind you that any time we cross the boarder our truck and its driver have been logged in. I know this as a fact because some drivers have been ticketed for falsification because their log book did not match up with the computer in the DOT bears car as to when the truck and driver crossed the boarder into Canada and back into the states.

Normally it takes anywere from 15 min to an hour to load or unload, depending ont he type of equipment at the warehouse or the processing facility.

Then you must add pretrip ond Postrip time with fueling time added onto either and all of a sudden I am out of hours if the two hour line two time goes against my 14 hour day.

What can be done to stay legal and away from a ticket in this type of instance?

[Uturn2001]

A few tips:

If you are sleeping at one of the plants then do not start your day in your log book until you are actually loading/unloading.

If you are sleeping at the loaders then combine your pretrip with the time it takes to get loaded. For example if it takes them 1 hour to pump the product into your trailer then log 1 hour on duty and in the remarks section write "Loading/Pre-trip (PTI)"

[golfhobo]

Rat said:

Ok say I start my day

Where? At the processing plant in Dakota?

and and end up sitting for 2 hours waiting before I can even start geting loaded.

You mean after driving back up to Manitoba?

Then I drive to my final destination and get unloaded.

Back in Dakota?

Does this 2 hours count against my on duty time?

Yes, unless you log it as sleeper. Either way, it counts against your 14.

Or can I use it as berth time and take an 8 and be good to go for another 14/11 the next day?

Yes, you can log it in the sleeper, if you're just sitting in the truck (not really legal, but....) But, you will not have a FULL 14/11 reset after the 8. You will need to take the 2 hour break again at the proper time.... see Rawlco's excellent (and approved) explanation! :lol:

I quess what I am saying is the run that I am doing sucks up all of 14 hours do to loading, unloading and driving but I usually have to sit for 2 hours waiting before I can even back up and start loading.

You SHOULD be able to fit this 2 hour "detention" into your 14 hour day, if you log it right. If it's LESS than 2 hours, it fits easily (on line 2 OR 4) as you are only driving about 10 hours a day (from your last post) and if it is MORE than 2, I would log it as sleeper and split to stay on schedule.

I did some searching on the net and all I could find is that I can split my berth time as long as one of the berth sections is no less then 8 hours.

That is correct.

Now.... I am a bit confused by this.....

I start my day Line one empty

Line 2 goes to 6:00

Are you taking 10 on line 1 after getting empty? Or are you logging it in the sleeper? WHERE is the line of demarcation between starting on line 1 and "going to 6 on line 2?"

From your "here's the deal" post, it sounds like you consider your day as starting after a long break in Dakota AFTER unloading (empty) and consider your daily run to be from Dakota to Manitoba (where you sit and wait to load) and then back to Dakota. Am I right? Your "example" shows two different drive times for what sounds like the SAME trip either way. Let's assume it takes 5 hours each way. You should be able to throw in 15 mins for fueling once a day, and NO MORE than a half hour for each load and unload. That's 10 hours driving and 1.25 hours on line 4. That leaves up to 2.75 hours of "detention" (which I would log in the sleeper regardless.... to keep it off my 70) before maxing out your 14 hour day. After this, I would take a full 10 hour break at night and start my day at the same time every day. (I'm assuming the shippers might not want to load you at midnight.)

ALWAYS make your logs match your bordercrossing times! Does either the shipper or receiver put TIMES on your BOL? If not, make your log say whatever puts you at the border at the right time.

Maybe, I misunderstood something, but your company seems to have figured this out pretty well..... tight, but legal. Remember.... you CAN be on line 4 unloading PAST your 14 hour window! If you ARE, then you should have logged or "created" a two hour break somewhere during the day so that you CAN split and take only 8 at night... and again start your day at the same time.

But, if you are sleeping at the plant in Manitoba, don't start your log until 15 minutes before you are loaded and ready to drive. This will give you the most time available for your run. If you are sleeping in Dakota, and they don't show what time they unloaded you, well.... you've been on break since shortly after you GOT there. :wink:

Hope this helps.

Oh yeah.... I think everything Rawlco said was correct, but that part about your starting time rotating back by 2 hours per day may not count in YOUR case. Sounds to ME like you can fit everything into a 14 hour day and still shut down for 10 at night and stay on a certain schedule. Unless you can load at all hours of the night, I wouldn't see the advantage to taking the shorter 8 hour break at night, unless you had an extra long detention for loading, and properly logged it as a 2 hour sleeper break (hard to put it on line 1!)

Why are you logging line 4 for an hour EACH for loading and unloading? That's 2 hours/day for what you can LOG as 30 minutes. Throw in an extra 15 mins now and then to fool the "man!" But, you could be saving about 7 or 8 hours a week against your 70! IF (as I believe) you are starting your day empty in Dakota, I would log 15 mins for a pretrip. But, at the end of the day, I would include your post trip in the 15-30 mins I would log as unloading.

The way I see it, you should be showing about 9.5 hrs/day driving, .5 hrs for fueling/PTI, and no more than 1 hour/day total at the docks. That's 11 hours a day on lines 3 and 4. Leaving you 3 hours to log in the sleeper while wasting your time, and STILL stay on the "circadian schedule" the FMCSA hopes for! That's 6 days of work ending around 8 pm on the last day (with 4 hours to spare or "give here and there.")

34 hours later, you get to start all over (if you want) at 6 a.m. again! PERFECT!!

OOPS! this won't work unless you want to flip your schedule from week to week from days to nights! Sorry! I'll try again! (But, you're not answering my questions, so it is difficult!) :lol:

couldn't you leave two hours early and be the first in line, then this would be a non issue.