[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

No, it was the FMCSA interpretation of the regs. I've already discussed this with them at length back when the regs were changed, and they confirmed what I already stated: If you take the 8 hour break first, it must be combined with an additional break that is more than 2 hours, but less than 10 hours. That is the only way that the 14 hour clock stops, is if that 8 hour break is combined with an additional break of more than 2 hours, but less than 14 hours.

The only way that you can get the "equivalent of at least 10 consecutive hours off duty" is to take two breaks - and neither can be more than 10 hours. If you did not take two breaks, with neither being more than 10 hours, you did not get the "equivalent of at least 10 consecutive hours off duty" according to the FMCSA.

An 8 hour break and a 10 hour break combined do not meet the specifications listed by 395.1 (g)(1)(ii)(A).

Furthermore, for the 8 hour break to not count when splitting, it must be more than 8 hours but less than 10 hours:

If you take an 8 hour break, then take an additional 10 hour break, the first 8 hour break does not meet the requirements set forth by 395.1 (g)(1)(ii)(C).


Once again, golfhobo is proven wrong by the regs.

At this point, I assume you are just bloviating and bullsh!tting to cover the fact that you were wrong, and don't want to admit it. I further assume that you KNOW you are wrong, and no futher discussion is necessary.

8 hours in the sleeper is ALWAYS "off the clock."

There is no reg against taking a 10 hour break following an 8 hour S/B break.

A 10 hour break taken ANYWHERE will "break the cycle."

Everything I quoted you on, and said you were wrong about, you WERE wrong about.

[Rev.Vassago]

So sayeth Last Word Larry, the (less than) 3 year WonderTroll.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

So sayeth Last Word Larry, the (less than) 3 year WonderTroll.

So..... is that an admission that you are wrong and you KNOW it?

Here's the thing, Rev. Yes, I have only been in the industry for 3 years. But, that means I never had to learn or operate under ANY of the "old rules." I know enough about them to know the changes that were made, but I am not "confused" by them when considering the rules as they are now.

I mean no disrespect to ANY of the more experienced drivers here when I say that I have found that MANY drivers who lived under the "old rules" have had problems forgetting them, so to speak, and embracing and understanding the NEW rules. I can see where some of the confusion comes from.

Nor do I mean any disrespect to the many O/O's here who never had a safety department (or in some cases even a CDL mill) to "teach" them the rules, be they the old ones or the new ones.

But, in your interpretations, I see an O/O who may have never had to go through a school, or had a safety manager, to teach them the rules..... or to be argued with. You MAY have been on your own to discern the rules for yourself from the beginning, and those rules have changed a few times.

For whatever reason, your recent post contained several glaring misconceptions which I quoted. I understand where the confusion comes from, but I can do nothing more than point out your errors, and correct them. As long as you continue to maintain that you are right, and quote regs that further confuse the issue, I cannot seem to make you understand the truth.

It is very simple, really. ALL references in the regs to "less than 10 hours" has the meaning and intent to distinguish between timeframes that would lend themselves to "split logging" versus a full 10 hour break which immediately breaks the cycle, and returns the driver to full clocks and "regular" provisions of the 11/14 hour clocks.

If a driver was so inclined (which would be a major waste of his time,) he could drive 5, break in the SLEEPER for 8, drive 6, break in the SLEEPER for 8, drive 5...... rinse and repeat forever and never incur a violation unless, or until he exceeded 70 hours on duty in 8 days.

Likewise, a driver can "split" 8 and 2, in ANY ORDER, and break the cycle at any time with a full 10 hours break (continuous) on lines 1, 2 or a combination.

There is NO reg that says you MUST take the 2 hour break first. And there is NO violation if you follow EITHER break with a full and continuous 10 hour break (if done within the time limits.)

You were WRONG..... plain and simple..... and you owe the poster an acknowledgement of this, instead of continuing to play games with me by quoting regs that sound like they support your position.

Obviously, any reg that is "defining" the rules of split logging, is going to EXCLUDE a full 10 hour break, because that would break the split. But, that is a far cry from saying that one CANNOT take a 10 hour break following either a 2 hour OR 8 hour break.

The 8 hour S/B break will ALWAYS be "off the clock," and any calculation of the 14 hour rule MUST exclude ANY 8 hour S/B break, regardless of what follows!

You cannot get a 14 hour violation while TAKING a 10 hour break (as you stated) if one didn't occur before you began that break.

And the cycle will be broken by ANY 10 consecutive hour break spent ANYWHERE.... not just the sleeper!

You made 3 erroneous statements, and I called you on them. If you don't understand where you are wrong, I suggest you attend a "refresher course" to keep your CDL! If you REALLY don't understand where and THAT you are wrong..... GOD help you! That might explain why it took you about 3 days to get from Georgia (or wherever) back up North where you belong!

Last Word Larry.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

So sayeth Last Word Larry, the (less than) 3 year WonderTroll.

And what does that say about YOU.... when a (less than) 3 year "company driver" knows more about the HOS rules (and many others) than YOU?? :roll:

12 years on the road, and you STILL can't get it right? And, by your own admission, this is pretty much "all you know?" :shock: :roll:

I really have to question, at this point in your "young" life, if you really know anything?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[WHLSOFSTL726012]

Originally Posted by Rat

Ok say I start my day and and end up sitting for 2 hours waiting before I can even start geting loaded.

Then I drive to my final destination and get unloaded.

Does this 2 hours count against my on duty time or can I use it as berth time and take an 8 and be good to go for another 14/11 the next day?

I quess what I am saying is the run that I am doing sucks up all of 14 hours do to loading, unloading and driving but I usually have to sit for 2 hours waiting before I can even back up and start loading.


I did some searching on the net and all I could find is that I can split my berth time as long as one of the berth sections is no less then 8 hours.

i dont start my logs until im loaded ready to go. then i put a pretrp/load a half hr on line 4 b4 i start on line 3 drivin out. thatll move all the wait time to the break i was finishing.....unless u have to drive to a customer then wait, but if the customer aint too far away u can "start" ur day when ur ready to pull off the property. sometimes ppl get jumpy an start loggin then run into havin to wait at customer forever u get raked over that way

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by WHLSOFSTL726012

i dont start my logs until im loaded ready to go. then i put a pretrp/load a half hr on line 4 b4 i start on line 3 drivin out. thatll move all the wait time to the break i was finishing.....unless u have to drive to a customer then wait, but if the customer aint too far away u can "start" ur day when ur ready to pull off the property. sometimes ppl get jumpy an start loggin then run into havin to wait at customer forever u get raked over that way

That is a violation of the rules.

[WHLSOFSTL726012]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

Rev.Vassago said:



Wrong again, Clyde! :roll: Breaking the cycle requires a full 10 hour consecutive break, but.... as ANY of them..... can be taken anywhere, or any combination of line 1 and/or line 2.



STILL wrong, and so far off base as to prove you have NO IDEA what you are talking about! :roll: It doesn't make much SENSE to take an 8 hour S/B break followed a few hours later by a full 10 hour "shutdown," but it is perfectly legal.



WHY do you insist on confusing the newbies??

The "caveat" of LESS THAN 10 HOURS is found in conjunction with wording concerning the 2 hour break and the 8 hour S/B break....

Because.... and ONLY because..... if it were MORE than 10 hours, it would no longer be part of a "split," but would qualify as a full 10 hour break, which would then reset your 11/14 hour clocks TOTALLY, and they would no longer be contingent on the end of your previous break, and no driving hours prior to such a 10 hour break would THEN be counted against your new clocks! :roll: [in other words, it doesn't fit the "discussion" of split breaking!]

Oh, and BTW.... regardless of what you do on your second (or so-called smaller break,) an 8 hour S/B break is ALWAYS OFF THE CLOCK! Whether or not you meet the requirements of the split break or not..... an 8 hour S/B break is ALWAYS off the clock! If you fail to take the minimum 2 hour break at the proper time, you WILL get a violation, but that violation will occur at a point in time that is calculated with the 8 hour break OFF THE CLOCK! [I believe there is an example of this in the logbook section of the fmcsa website.]



This is correct, but it also applies to a scenario where you might take an 8 hour break first (OFF THE CLOCK) and then, instead of the 2 hour break needed, you ended up taking a full 10 hour (or more) break.



Only when YOU try to explain them! :roll:



You can "believe" what you want, but the purpose of the 8/2 split vs. the 5/5 split was due to medical evidence that the human body needed at least 7 hours of "resorative" rest at ONE TIME to avoid a compounding effect of sleep deprivation.

The FMCSA fought HARD to maintain SOME form of a split breaking system. They could have done away with it entirely. Personally, I find the new rules work very well for me in both getting the needed sleep AND giving me a way to "log off" 2 hours of the 10 for lunch or showers or whatever that DON'T come at the end of my day.

Now, before you fly off the handle and insist you are correct, I suggest you consult with Rawlco to confirm what I am saying. That way, there will be no need for this to go 10 pages full of insults. You can simply admit you are mistaken, and perhaps even LEARN something that might help you in your career.

tell em how it is golf......whats wrong w this guy lol.....if it was illegal to do an 8 hr then a 10 then ida been in violation MANY times, lol....unreal

[WHLSOFSTL726012]

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

That is a violation of the rules.

not really, ur jus changin it around a lil........just pushin ur start time out a lil

[WHLSOFSTL726012]

Originally Posted by rigidsporty

Thanks Rev... you just added to my confusion!

I had my 10 hours off... 2 at noon and 8 at 8pm. I should have full 11/14 hours. Your saying the 2 hours at noon didnt count toward my 10? Where did the 5 hours come from?

ur spossed to do 8 hrs 1st THEN 2 hrs.....the 2 hrs at noon jus comes off ur 14 hr clock.....they used to be able to do 2 n 8 or 8 n 2 till 2005 i think

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by WHLSOFSTL726012

ur spossed to do 8 hrs 1st THEN 2 hrs.....the 2 hrs at noon jus comes off ur 14 hr clock.....they used to be able to do 2 n 8 or 8 n 2 till 2005 i think

Sorry, but you are incorrect. There is nothing in the regs that stipulates the 8 hour break first. In fact, most examples show the opposite. There are, however, examples of BOTH in the logbook examples section of the FMCSA website.

BTW... I understand what you are "doing" with your logs, and many "do it," but Rev is right that it is a violation of the regs.... in fact, log falsification. Don't get caught! LOL.