[GMAN]

Low rates are basically a result of market forces at work. When capacity goes down (fewer trucks in a particular market) rates go up since there is more competition for the same trucks. When there is more capacity (more trucks) rates go down because brokers know that some will be desperate to get out of an area due to fewer loads for the number of trucks. Until you stop those trucks who are willing to haul the cheap loads, you will not impact rates. Over the years I have seen rates start out low and as the week progresses rates come up until someone takes the load. One thing you need to understand about rates. Shippers MUST move their product. They want to ship it at the lowest rate possible. At some point they will need to pay a higher rate or shut down their production. Unless products are shipped the shipper has no income. Without income his business ceases to function. I know there are many brokers who are taking too large of a piece of the pie, but truckers are all too willing to let them.

One way to get a better rate is to tell the broker or shipper up front that it will take x number of dollars for you to take their load. You need to change the way in which you do business. You need to take the power away from the broker or shipper. They cannot move their product without your truck. I am not talking about gouging them, but getting a fair price for your service. This is a business of negotiation. We all rely on one another for our livelihood.

[merrick4]

Originally Posted by pepe4158

Say Merrick

I share your same wonder, about what really causes low rates, ok the theory from truck drivers has alwasys been, 'desperate owners running the cheap freight.' and if we all quit running it...rates would go up.

I really thing this is only a small part of the equation though, I think there are deeper market forces at work here.....I have been hearing dont run cheap freight for almost 20 years now...and it hasnt worked.

Really like to dig into this more in the future for sure...sorry if should have posted this on the cheap freight post.

I didn't know you had so long doing this Pepe. As for wondering things, there is now another thing I'm wondering that is what is the point of these brokers? There is no way I am going to stay at the mercy of these guys. I figure I have two options. One to either find some work with some shippers (I know easier said than done) or find my own stuff to haul.

I know once I can get my foot in the door with a shipper than I'm good. When local the customers I had actually told the company not to send any driver but me. If I was going to be late they said they'd wait and not to send anyone else. I just need my foot in the door.

I think good service is hard to come by for these shippers. I picked up yesterday and they had me initial on the bills by the destination which tells me someone went to the wrong place.


As for now, I know people say that I should go on my own and not have this guy dispatch me but I thought about it and don't think that it's a smart idea. I got a new trailer and reefer unit which wasn't cheap. I NEVER would have gotten this stuff to try and work the boards on my own. That would have been too risky. So now I have plenty of work and money coming in. I came to Florida about 6 years ago without a penny in my pocket and had to start over and I have no intention of doing that again.

[no_worries]

I think you'd be smart to stay with this guy for a bit. There's something to be said for stability when you're highly leveraged. Having somebody else handle certain aspects allows you more time to get the other stuff down pat. Then when you move to the next level you've got much less to beome an expert on 8) Just make sure you're mining this guy for as much info as possible. You're a smart guy, you'll be able to separate what's useful from what's not.

When I started, I leased to SNI. I wanted the stability of revenue while I learned about having my own truck. In less than a year the truck was paid off and I was extremely comfortable with the actual running of the truck. Next I leased to a guy who, for 10% would handle the dispatching, invoicing, and obviously the compliance (since it was his authority). He let me use his load boards so, even though he was doing the work, I could search for loads at the same time and learn the process along with the lanes. He took time whenever I wanted to explain everything from rate confirmations, to invoicing, to a multitude of other stuff. In a few months, I was finding the bulk of my loads and he soon let me start handling all of the negotiations. After 8 months it was time to get my own authority. At each step, I learned a certain portion of the business without having to worry about other aspects. When I felt like I'd learned everything I was going to in that situation, I moved to a situation where I had to take on more responsibility. Each step came with a corresponding bump in revenue. While it took about 18 months from buying my truck to getting my own authority, I never once felt overwhelmed. It was a very comfortable progression and I always felt well-prepared.

It's certainly not the only way to go about things. It worked for me and if I had to do it over again, that's how I'd do it. Even if you're not making as much per load as you could, you've got stability and less responsibility. Take advantage of that for all it's worth.

[merrick4]

Definitely the way to go like that no_worries. As you said not the only way but I couldn't see doing it any other way. These expenses are starting to add up and without that set income coming in I'd be stressing. I had a slow leak in my trailer (one month old) tire and it was less than in inch from the side so they wouldn't patch it.

Fortunately I called my friend and he has new ones from the trailer he bought. He pulls them off and puts on his own tire (he does the all in one like you mentioned) so he's going to give me a new one for $150.

I have no idea how people start out with limited funds that's for sure. I will say too that while I am under this guy it's a big plus that all loads I run are in my name so I am building a profile with these companies. Working on the list Sonny gave. Just hauled for TQL; like logging in and seeing 100% on time delivery


By the way in case anyone is interested, I wrote recently in one of these threads that a friend just leased on on JB Hunt as a lease purchase. Like I mentioned before I never knew anyone first hand to do it. They have some new program where you pay 10 cents a mile and don't have to worry about maintenance. Not that bad if you're in that situation and start that way. He's paying $350 for the truck. Penske charges over $500 a week and the $.10. so it might work out better.

[no_worries]

Really watch things with TQL. They're notorious for trying to wriggle out of detention, TONU, unloading, basically anything they can. As you know, those issues come to play in the reefer biz far more often than vans, flats, etc. When dealing with them be especially careful to get everything in writing. Their contract is one of the most lopsided I've ever seen. I've never hauled for them but I almost did a few months ago. Guy calls me and says he needs a team yesterday and I can almost name my own price. I told him "For you guys I give a special rate." We were only a few hundred dollars away, but I don't negotiate with those guys :lol:

[pepe4158]

Rookie...making rookie mistakes, but fortunatly nothing too serious yet
:-p

[pepe4158]

Originally Posted by GMAN

know there are many brokers who are taking too large of a piece of the pie, but truckers are all too willing to let them.

One way to get a better rate is to tell the broker or shipper up front that it will take x number of dollars for you to take their load. You need to change the way in which you do business. You need to take the power away from the broker or shipper. They cannot move their product without your truck. I am not talking about gouging them, but getting a fair price for your service. This is a business of negotiation. We all rely on one another for our livelihood.

In theory this sounds good, but it seems like the brokers have far more tools to use against us if it becomes a competition thing to put things to their advantage...I quess you would disagree and call it a level playing field tho?

[merrick4]

You know it finally hit me tonight. What GMAN says is true, especially when he wrote in one of these threads that we can always find shippers but brokers need our trucks. Of course that's right but for some reason it doesn't work like that.

Then tonight I realized what it is that's wrong with that. You take any time in history, even now, and there is always someone smaller, a minority or a king or whatever that controls many others even though the many others might have more power or whatever.

In many cases it is by force, i.e. weapons, fear or whatever but it's also knowledge. These brokers know what the shipper pays. Even Loadit made a comment recently that he use to ask the carriers how much they need and most didn't know. Well there you go, as I was saying earlier in another thread, I want to know what these prices are based on because until then I am ignorant. Those that know always control those that are ignorant.

The oppressors can't rule without the cooperation of the oppressed yet the oppressed cooperate. Maybe this is all too far fetched and maybe I'm being too dramatical but this is how I see it. Sure we have the trucks but the brokers are holding the work .

I don't say this by the way as to justify hauling cheap freight. Mark my words once I figure this out I plan on coming out all right. This is the information age, what these brokers have, with a little dilligence we all can find out and obtain.

[pepe4158]

You know I tried to talk to as many O/ops before I got my authority....on their attitudes....especially other own authority and their attitude towards brokers.
Almost all viewed it as a struggle or battle...that they really put their game face on when talking about rates to brokers.
This seems a far cry from G-mans attitude that you can find, 'honerable brokers' and find a happy medium....where its a win-win scenario.
You know lately I have realized though I need to just quit dealing as much as I can with the shady ones....and try to stick most with the reputable ones....cant always,,,,but been trying.

[merrick4]

To stick with the reputable ones, that was more or less what Sonny said I believe when he wrote that list out; that you don' t have to check credit etc. Honestly most of my loads have been with CH Robinson and I just did one with TQL and I like that I can just log in and see where my money is.

But when I get settled I will as I said find my own shippers or find my own freight. I don't know, keep posting your experiences cause you seem to be honest in how things are going for you. Not bitter or hyping things up or down just telling it like it is.