thank you for proving my point there big jeep! and yes i did get banned, never did i once deny that. and calling fed ex the swift of the ltl does not bother me one bit...because fed ex ground, where i run for, is not ltl. but good try, would you like another chance. i got a hundred dollar bill that says you get on and try to insult me some more!!!!

 

So sorry for his family. No one should have to deal with the pain that they are experiencing. I have only been driving for 3 years and still consider myself a newbie. Took an early retirement after 30 years in the printing industry. Took 2 years off and after I got bored and the wife got tired of looking at me I thought i'd try trucking. Went to school to get my CDL and started with Werner. I assume that Werner's training is similar to most big companies. It is not about training, but running as a team. A Werner trainee has to be behind the wheel for 275 hours before getting your own truck. I would guess that my trainer was awake for maybe 20 of those hours. Most of his waking hours were spent spent backing into docks. (didnt want to take the time to let me learn).

I only lasted with Werner for 3 months after finishing training and lucky enough to get on with a good regional company. When i look back at my training abd some of the close calls that happened when i first started driving, it seems funny... until you read a story like this. Personally i am surprised that it dosent happen more often. I know I wasn't ready to be behind the wheel and feel grateful that I didn't kill someone. My point is that no one should be shocked to hear that the trainer was in the bunk. There is nothing unusual about it. Sad but true. Good luck to you all and be safe.

Again my heart goes out to the family

 

I've been thinking on this for a day now, and here is something I decided to point out.

The article BG posted, was done, while the qouted WSP officer was at the scene, probably while the man's body was still inside / outside the truck. One thing the officer would not know, at that point, would be the length of time that Mr. Fay had been employed at Swift.
I'm pretty sure that the trainer was sitting in the hospitol shortly after the EMT's arrived at the scene, so had not been interviewed by the time Trooper Kessler gave this statement to the press.

One thing that Trooper Kessler would have available to him, would be WHEN Mr. Fay's CDL, as well as his training permit, was issued. If that CDL and Permit, were only 4 weeks old...that would correspond with the troopers statement of "about three and a half weeks of training".

Now...it's been 30 years since I did my "driver training". I spent 2 weeks at the company's training center in Tulsa (I already knew "how" to drive a truck) before I was sent back to the Evanston WY facility where I was employed, for another 8 weeks of OJT(that was a company requirement), with a trainer sitting in the truck(s) with me, advising me on the different situations, as they arose.

When I left that job, the next one had me "training" for 2 weeks with a trainer. At that point I had 10 years of commercial driving experience.
In 2005, when I moved to Texas, the job I took here in Orange, I spent 2 and 1/2 weeks with a trainer riding with me. At that point I had 27 years of driving experience. I had not done some of the work though, in 17 years.

My entire point here is....The "Trainer" should have been out in the right-seat, training Mr. Fay, not in the bunk sleeping.

Look at the picture of the tractor. Why did Mr. Fay die? The cab is not really damaged all that bad. Was he ejected from the seat and killed by the truck? These are things that the story does not tell us. Because the "Trainer" was injured badly enough to transport to the hospitol, I would say that it is safe to assume he was not secured in the bunk. Was the same true for Mr. Fay? Was he driving without his seatbelt fastened?


http://www.nwcn.com/statenews/washin...186f1a7d9.html


Again...I'm not berating Swift. I do however have a problem with a new driver dying, while his trainer is asleep in the bunk.
Had that trainer been awake and in the right seat...or even SITTING in the bunk observing, the trainer could have and should have, corrected mistakes Mr. Fay might have been making. That would include directing him to obey speed limits, to slow down due to weather and road conditions, to compensate for drunk drivers...the list can go on.


dobry4u, I hate to seem cold and indifferent too you, because I do feel bad for the family and friends of Mr. Fay, but as far as the trainer goes...I have no such feelings. I hold the man in contempt, for the simple fact that he was in that truck as a trainer, and his trainee died. Had such an ordeal happened to you, I would hold the same feelings for your trainer.


ironeagle_2006; IE-revisited....What makes you assume that the stretch of road where this accident happened is poorly designed? It is a far better stretch of road than many in this country. Where it used to be one series of ruts, from exit 111(Marvin RD) south to exit 100 (Tumwater Blvd.), now it is fairly flat and even, considering the amount of VLC truck traffic it handles daily.
I was through that section of road a week ago Thursday. I had a tanker with a partial load on (about 2/3 full), I sailed through the area at the posted speed limit, with little to no surge in the tank...which says a lot for the road surface. Partial loads in a single bore, non-baffled tank, can beat up a truck and a driver.

And Big Jeep....You are right and wrong in one single phrase.


You are right in your statement, that Mr. Fay was careless (or perhaps he simply lacked adequate training?) and that everything "WE" say here on this forum is "speculation".

You are wrong though when you suggest that it is reasonable to say that Mr. Fay shouldn't have been "over his head" with 3+ weeks of training / schooling.
It is reasonable, to assume that Mr. Fay was "over his head", for the simple fact that he died, and died needlessly.

As far as "facts" go...1: It is a fact that Mr. Fay died while training. 2: It is fact that the "Trainer" was in the sleeper, asleep. 3: It is a fact that the roadway where this accident happened, is not "un-negotiable" in bad weather.


As I have stated before....WSP is reviewing the tapes. (Yes...there are cameras along that stretch of road.) If there are circumstances which were involved, that the trainer should have and would have controlled / corrected, had he been awake and in the right seat, the video is going to bring them to light.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/TRAFFIC/olym....aspx?cam=1287

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/TRAFFIC/olym....aspx?cam=1286

Those are the "Public Access" cameras. There are other cameras to which the "Public" does not have access. That truck can be back-tracked close
to the point where it began it's journey.



Have I adequately explained "MY" stance here??? Is it understandable?

I do not get this "vocal" when I hear of an "experienced" driver dying in such an accident. I believe proper training is important, for the simple fact that "Bad" training gives this profession a bad name. I take pride in what I do. I make every attempt to do it well.

 

Orangetxguy,

You have gone to great lengths drawing conclusions on mere speculation. I would call that arm chair investigation. You are claiming that the cause of the accident was due to the fact of inadequate training and the fact that the trainer was not in the passenger seat.

There is nothing less than theory to your conclusions and I think this does such an injustice to everyone until you have the facts. Which, may never happen.

Apparently this is the time for you to voice your concerns over this style of training, which sir, you are entitled to. What disturbs me is that you have no facts or evidence to make your stance. Just your concern and judgment. I believe until the facts come to light and given the start of this thread, the accident reported is to be viewed as an unfortunate tragedy which resulted in the ultimate price.

 

well if the student had no seat belt on that's not the trainers fault ...and even with a bunk net up you still get slammed around good enough to break bones even die ,you just don't get easily ejected...Now I do no wear a belt I hate them and will take my chances ,but when in tarining I wore it , but not when trainer was sleeping...wink

 

he knew better. he was posting more misinformation as he usually does.

 

And, if you are working under the "TEAM-TRAINING" practices, yes, you do fit the definition.
Companies like Swift and England are promoting it, and it means the trainee is training himself/herself. If the trainer is in the bunk, there is no training or supervision going on. That is the part that is essential to the training process. The running conversation where the trainee learns to watch out for a broken-down car half way through a curve, or going up the exit ramp, take the center lane for your left turn so you don't take down the traffic light in the median. It's not possible for the trainer to do that from the bunk with his/her eyes closed.

DOT and state regs need to make the companies responsible for things that happen like this one. It's the companies that promote team training, that set up the situation for things like this to happen in the first place. They are the ones that should be held liable for damage, clean-up, and WRONGFUL DEATH when something like this happens.

 

Unless you have personally experienced the training, then you are basically talking out your :moon:.

Calling me dumb is SO Big Diesel

 

Well you would be hard pressed to win a training law suit for lack of training since the driver is qualified CDL A holder which initself is a legal document stating he/she satisfies the reuirements to operate a combination vehicle ...safely...Would be a diffrent story if he/she only held a permit .

 

And there I was trying to like the Rookie.

Now I am wondering whom it is, that is giving you all your rep points!

I can make a lot of "assumption" based on the pictures of the accident, on the roadway itself (as I have posted...I have a lot of miles on that section of road), on weather conditions, on time of day (also a weather condition), on traffic patterns at that time of day (comes from familiarity with the area), and my own "training" experience. (pssst. You do not know my entire background in trucking)

I said: and; and: and finally: I am not "assuming" that Mr. Fay died while being trained. That is a reported fact.

I am not "assuming" that the WSP is reviewing video of the accident. The WSP is also doing GPS surveying, they are using wheels with counters and tape measures, eye-witness interviews, and toxicology reports, to complete their investigation. Those are facts. All of this is "Standard Prodcedure", when a death occurs on Washington State roadways.

Now...Mz dobry4u, It is possible that you are letting my location and screen name fool you. You are probably thinking I have no idea what the conditions on I-5 are like. I have 18 years of driving the I-5 corridor from Chehalis to the Canadian border on a daily basis. I was a "Local" driver based out of Seattle all of those years. I have almost 2 million safe driving miles (conservative estimate) in the Puget Sound region.

You (and a couple others on the forum) are a Swift employed driver. Once WSP has finished it's investigation (in 4 to 6 months), it will send that report to Swift and it's Senior safety officer. Upon reviewing that report, Swift will begin holding safety meetings regarding this accident, as well as reviewing it's training policies(again), as is required by the USDOT.

Maybe you will remember this topic then, and come back and tell us what the WSP conclusion was, as regards this accident.


Personally, I feel poor training practices are an injustice.