Another Swift trainee killed last night......
#191
11-16-2008, 02:12 PM
First part....if he cannot remember anything that does not PROVE he was sleeping. As another poster claims that ..."he was sound asleep". How the HELL do you know what state of sleep he was in?? Could he or couldn't he have just been laying there because they did a driver change 10 miles ago? yes or no?? Could he have been in a period of deep REM sleep, because they did a driver change a half hour ago?? Yes or no?? You do not know what was going on, other than there was an accident. I will admit, if Mr. Fay's skills were lacking, and the trainer left him up there to fend for himself, yeah, trainers fault big time. Since you automaticly assume you know the level of training Mr. Fay received in the month and a half prior to the accident, please tell me where he went to school? Can you tell me if his mentor and him shook hands when introduced at the termianl? heck, did they even meet at a terminal? maybe they met at a Denny's?? You want to speculate so much, please fill me in what their last meal together was?? And even if i did run into the mentor, and asked him, if he dont remember, don't mean he was sleeping. You've never heard of PTSD? Some event in your life stressed you out so much, you have memory loss. How about i go track down Alex Zanardi and ask him about his big wreck in Germany where he lost his legs. He wont remember (dont remember) that leading up to the crash....oh...but according to you, if you dont remember, you were sleeping. ..... gotcha.
as far as the last highlighted passage. Seeing how I recieved the same level of training (obviously it is the exact same right? because poor training is allowed because of Swift standards, yeah? and because Swift has such poor requirements to 'complete' said training, correct???) how am i still alive, and not dead?? Tell me when was the last student driver/mentor accident with swift?? You should give up Big Riggin' and become a fantasy writer.... Your posts are more and more outlandish everytime....:rofl::rofl::rofl:
#192
11-16-2008, 02:16 PM
you proved my point, pea brain....thank you. ;-)
but NOWHERE am i defending his actions. I have stated before, he was at fault if he didn't give the proper training, or didnt fell 100% comfortable with Mr. Fay behind the wheel enough to be in the sleeper. Again you FAIL to entertain the idea that you dont have all the facts, and you clearly are subscribing to the idea that you know everything that was going on in the truck, and CHOOSE to base your opinion on speculation. nice job.
#193
11-16-2008, 02:17 PM
please show me where my facts in that post you're laughing about are wrong. please.....
#194
11-16-2008, 02:27 PM
The retarded neighbor kid can figure this out better than you are able too....:lol2:
#195
11-16-2008, 02:30 PM
Let me tell you a little story. I cannot make this a short story, so you will have to deal with that. I know you only have the attention span just long enough to take a wiz...but try to pay attention.
The year was 1977, the place was the Canary Islands. This plane was enroute to Las Palmas on Gran Canaria. A bomb exploded in the terminal, and this plane was diverted (along with others) to Tenerife. Once Gran Canaria International Airport was reopened, planes were allowed to depart Tenerife. The ramp was so congested, that the only way for this plane to get out, was to taxi up the runway, and once it reached the end, turn 180 degrees, and take off. However the crew was told to hold and wait because another plane was going to taxi up the same runway, turn part way up and allow the first plane to take off. The delay had been so long that the captian was in such to hurry and take off. Bad weather was rolling in, alot of stress was put on everybody. Well guess what, the captian forgot to wait, and decided to just go. the first officer corrected the captian once about rushing to take off, and didnt think he was in position to correct him a 2nd time. Guess what....one of the worst avaiation accidents (until 9/11) occured, killing several hundred people, and only 61 survivors. Now, knowing just those facts, how many years experience did this captian have? Was he a trainer? (what we call in the industry a 'check-airman') Was he well respected? I'll let you ponder that for a minute. tick-tock. The Captian was Jacob van Zanten of KLM Airways. He was in command of a 747 (the plane they hit was also a 747 operated by Pan-Am). Oh, and he was a check-airman. Captain van Zanten was not only senior in rank, but also one of the most able and experienced pilots working for the airline. Captain Jacob van Zanten was the preferred pilot for KLM publicity such as magazine advertisements. As such, KLM attempted to contact him to give public statements regarding the disaster and help investigating, before learning that he was the captain involved. Now, could you know from just the information I gave you about van Zanten's credentials? Hardly. But had you been an avaiation buff, you would have speculated that he was an inexperienced pilot who had not paid his dues and been exposed to the different condtions being a major airline pilot brings. You would rather speculate rather than use the brain (as small as it might be) god gave you, and put it to good use and do some well thought out, independant thinking. You'd rather ASSume, and slam a company that currently is the doormat of the industry. B You know something...That was a totally worthless anology, given that this is not an aviation accident. However...since you did bring this up, I do remember the accident being in the news. Walter Cronkite told us about it. The senior pilot was in error. Oh yeah...I do know enough about aviation, to know that rookie pilots don't get first seat in a 747 right out the gate. I also know that rookie pilots are not left alone at the controls of a loaded ariplane. You want to compare airplane accidents. Think back to Souix City Iowa, United Airlines Flight 232, clear runway and cornfields. Live TV.. Captain Al Haynes flew a disabled airplane (DC-10 with major hydraulic failures) well enough with just the throttles, that instead of every person on the plane dying......only half did. I got to ride from Seattle to Dulles with Mr. Haynes in the seat next to me. He told not only myself, but several of the other passengers in the first class section, about how terrified he was, about how tired his hands and feet became, and about how not only the co-pilot, but the navigator and a United flight trainer whom was catching a ride to Chicago on the flight...all worked together to try and get that plane safely on the ground. That still has zip to do with this accident. NOW..one last time...Mr. Fay died needlessly. He did not have the experience to be left alone at the wheel of that truck. HIS DEATH is proof of that.
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Space...............Is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence! :thumbsup: Star Trek2009
#196
11-16-2008, 11:28 PM
You just proved my point again.
actually UA232s problem was not JUST a hydraulic failure. The fan disk in the #2 engine had a fatague crack that propigated out from the center of the hub. the disk fractured and spun violently out of the engine, severing said hydraulic lines. What is actually amazing, is that after that crash, United Airlines put every DC-10 captian in that same setup in a simulator. NOT ONE SAVED THE AIRPLANE. NOT ONE EVER GOT THE PLANE BACK TO AN AIRPORT. Dennis Fitch, a check-airman for UA on DC-10s was the guy who came up with the idea to control the plane using engine thrust.
NOW..one last time...Mr. Fay died needlessly. He did not have the experience to be left alone at the wheel of that truck. HIS DEATH is proof of that.
#197
11-17-2008, 12:23 AM
and if you had not known already that rookie pilots dont get the left seat in a 747 right off the bat, and besides, i didn't say '747' in the first part of the story, i said 'plane'. you can continue to show how close-minded you are, your you can continue getting red in the face explaining how 'right' you think you are. if you need to go back and weeeed my posts over, i'll basiclly sum them all up here. nobody knows how the trainer was training. Nobody knows WHAT was said to Mr. Fay in the minutes, hours, days and weeks leading up to the accident. Nobody knows where Mr. Fay got his training, nobody knows exactly what state of sleep the mentor was in, everybody knows the trainer was in the sleeper, everybody knows the roadway was wet, everybody knows a student DRIVER was killed, everybody knows something went wrong, nobody knows how many hours/miles the trainer has under his belt. Everybody knows that Mr. Fay died by his own hand....as inexperienced as it may have been. if you dont know, why speculate and guess. Oh i know why, because had it been any other company involved, nobody would really care after page 3. It is only because the company involved that everybody wants to jump on the band waggon and claim just how bad their training is. your opinion is your opinion. I had the same training (maybe better) but yet i am still here. that clear things up for you? let me know if you need me to mail you a picture. i'm not a good artist, but i'll try.
#198
11-17-2008, 12:59 AM
You just proved my point again.
actually UA232s problem was not JUST a hydraulic failure. The fan disk in the #2 engine had a fatague crack that propigated out from the center of the hub. the disk fractured and spun violently out of the engine, severing said hydraulic lines. What is actually amazing, is that after that crash, United Airlines put every DC-10 captian in that same setup in a simulator. NOT ONE SAVED THE AIRPLANE. NOT ONE EVER GOT THE PLANE BACK TO AN AIRPORT. Dennis Fitch, a check-airman for UA on DC-10s was the guy who came up with the idea to control the plane using engine thrust. have i ever disagreed with that? my argument is with those azzes who speculate as to HOW the trainer was training. You really need to be a little more open minded. I sure hope you get the big picture, gather all visual information possible and look around when you're driving a big rig. Kid...your dense. You know nothing about truck accidents. You know nothing about truck control. Using an airline accident as an anology is not "Outside the box", it is outside to realm of reality. 80% of all truck drivers would never qualify as an airline pilot. That would include you. Most everybody whom has posted to this thread, ignores the "Swift" attitude. Even Big Diesel, for all his "Blowhard attitude" does not give credence to the "Swift" attitude. His point...as is mine, YankeeTurbo, and others whom understand a small modicome of safety, is that the training structure of to many companies is wrong. There are 5 major points to safe drivng. ALL GOOD KIDS LOVE MILK. Do you understand them? Do you know what the phrase is all about? Do you know what "Trained eye lead time" is? There is more to driving a truck safely, than hoping into the driver seat, starting the motor, releasing the brakes, and shifting up to high gear as fast as you can get there. It starts with your attitude when you open your eyes to start the day. But forget all that. You are unwilling to look at the basics, and realize that some where at the very begining, someone screwed up in the traning of Mr. Fay. You are unwilling to admit that a trainer belongs out in front, in the right hand seat, where training can be properly accomplished, instead of in the bunk, where nothing of value can be taught. At this point, I'm all for the fed's changing the training regulations. The rule should make it mandatory that all training be done in a day cab. That way trainers can not lay down and sleep. Either they will fall asleep against the door for the entire world to see..and earn themselves a bad back, or they will properly train a new driver. Oh yes....go to this website, http://clear-prop.org/aviation/haynes.html , and read about UA232. Mr. Fitch was asked to go to the ****pit, and was asked to control the throttles..he did not think it up....Mr Haynes and Mr. Records(the co-pilot), had already tried handling the throttles themselves.
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Space...............Is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence! :thumbsup: Star Trek2009
#199
11-17-2008, 01:15 AM
I've actually taken some flight instruction when i was in my mid 20s, junior. I've spent more time handling aircraft than you. Reason i'm not a pilot, money. it was going to take $4,500 more than what i invested, and being in my mid 20s, you really dont have alot of extra money to throw around. unless we're talking about YOU, in which case, not all of us had rich mommy and daddys that just handed us everything we wanted. But then again, we'll read just how much better you are than me or everybody else. LOL
As far as your little catch phrase, all good kids love milk, is that the same as SIPDE? is your 'trained eye lead time' the same as 'aim high in steering'? meaning you don't look 20 ft in front of you. you look a mile down the road?? whatever my answer is, will just be 'wrong' anyways. I could care less about your opinion of me, the company i drive for, or my 'skill level'. Fact is, even if you've been driving for 5 years, and you STILL arent training, then it is time to hang up the keys, because getting complacient is worse than someone who thinks a big rig handles the same as an 18 wheeler. facts are you are judging everything based on the company someone drives for. you've never seen me drive, you dont know the facts about how many hours/miles Mr Fay's trainer has, you just rather assume then dwell in FACT. I have no problem with people who do that. my problem are when those people are so close minded, that they cannot accept any alternate opinion.
#200
11-17-2008, 02:18 AM
The real bottom line here is that shit happens period....
Drivers do make mistakes at any age and at any period in their career, all of us have done something wrong at one point or another it is as simple as that, nobody is perfect. The trainer most likley should have been in the passenger seat and not in the sleeper, but who knows the circumstances, unless you were riding in the truck. it is all about the money and getting butts in the seat and tires rolling, some companies do take short cuts and in the end they will pay the price along with the innocent naive newbie and tolls of others as well. It is just a matter of time before regulations will mandate on board video, and then everyone will cry foul and no fair, myself I kind of look at it as a way to keep drivers on their toes and paying attention. There is no such thing as a perfect company or job. Timberwolf
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