What you must remember is to split break your day starts as a normal day. Once you enter lines 3 or 4 after a 10 hour break or longer your 14 hour clock starts (it's like clocking in and 14 hours later you must clock out). Now if you take a 2 hour break (like example #3 in the below link) your 14 hour clock will not stop, however at the end of the 14 hour you must stop and take @ least an 8 hour sleeper break. Now the time before the 8 & 2 must not total more than 11 hours of driving time.
The example # 3 shows the driver started at 10:00 am on day 1, which means his "original 14 hour ended at 12:00 am" . The driver did stop not stop for his 8 hour break before "DRIVING" passed the 14th hour. Had he stopped for an 8 hour break before driving again he would of been good for 3 hours of driving time (take the driving time in between the 8 & 2, minus 11 and that's how many hours they can drive if the 14 hour rule allows this).

That's just one example.

Split breaking is the simpliest thing to ever do, you just need to learn & understand it. Seriously many drivers need to use it to their advantage

I can discuss the other examples as well to help make sense in easy ways I hope.
I forgot the link

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...k-examples.htm

 

This I agree with you! It makes no sense why a driver can log 10 hours off duty (meaning he can be gambling for 10 hours) but to split break 8 hours must be in the sleeper, however if the court of law can prove you was not getting any rest they could hold you accountable for a death if caused by an accident. It's just one of those tricky things unfortunately.

That does bug me though, why? One of those things that make you go HMMM?

 

the problem is...there is very little advantage to using it....only to make a delivery "on time" on a very tight schedule. Or to "fudge" a phony break at consignee/shipper who has detained you for several hours- eating up your 14hr clock....you stick around for another 3 hrs of so for example- and log a 8 hr break there- then run.<-- Funny thing is this company actually will allow you to take advantage of this part of the split sleeper rule- but not go
on ahead and just take the 2 hr break-later. They want you to log a whole
10 break ----right after that 8hr break to stop a clock while detained at a shipper. Why might you ask do they do this? Because, most of their freight is short haul---you can complete the load in less than 11 hrs. So, it's in their $$$$ interest for you to take a "phony" 8hr break at a shipper who's detaining you- then run the load....as soon as you deliver it--take another 10 hr break( to "get legal") This doesn't make YOU any money in the long run....but it gets "their" freight there on time.

this brings in the $$$ value- lack there ofissue. Drivers can get in a hurry with a log book....others it seems are just too dense to figure it out or do simple math. So, the big companies are more concerned about getting a fine for a driver making a mistake, plus there's no Model/ way to make this new sleeper berth split Profitable in the long run.....given the constraints of the 14hr rule and the inability to extend the work day......They(big company/business) won't waste $$$$ trying to TRAIN their drivers HOW to use it/log it legal ......that's why some companies try to Keep their drivers from using it. Even banning/firing drivers for using it.....and thus pressure drivers to work a full 11.....because now if not "allowed" to use that 2 hrs in the middle of the day toward a break....it actually causes driver fatigue and cuts into their available time to make $$$.

 

Sorry, but BOTH of these poster's answers are way off the mark, and don't even make sense! 10 hours is 10 hours! Whether it's the old 5/5 or the new 8/2. The ONLY thing about the OLD rules that made a difference, was the extension of the "then" 15 hour clock by ANY break.

There is but ONE reason for the change to the 8/2 split. As many of you know (if you listen to the news,) it has been proven in study after study, that the average middle aged American needs 7.5 hours of SLEEP to "reconstitute" and recouperate from a days' work. NO one, with a few exceptions.... can continue on a 5/5 schedule without incurring a certain level of sleep depravation! This leads to FATAL accidents! Over a period of 2-3 weeks on the road, WITHOUT daily recouperative sleep, drivers are dangerous!

Now, many "oldtimers" will tell you it worked FINE for them for many years.... but how many will tell you that they "legally" took "bennies" to help them perform?

Quitcher bicchin' and get USED to it! In fact, you can use it to your advantage! Start your clock, then run 1/2 a day and take a break! Eat lunch, or take a badly needed shower! Then compress your clock to show that you took 2 hours to do it, and get back on the road. When you DO shut down at night, you will ONLY need to sit for 8 hours before hitting the road again!

The ONLY reason a trucker NEEDED to take 5 after only 5 hours of driving (in the past,) is because they were running on EMPTY!! NO REAL REST! 5 hours isn't enough..... and it's been proven!

If you can't run 11 hours a day (max) with a 2 hour break (or two or three breaks that you can SHOW as a two hour break,) you need to find an easier JOB! :shock:

If you don't take "illegal" runs, and you don't drag your azz down the highway, you should be able to make your miles AND GET YOUR REST!

ANY trucker who can't work for more than 5 hours without taking a 5 HOUR nap, is running a deficit sleep pattern, and is dangerous!

The FACTS are, that sleep associated accidents have declined since the 8/2 split has become the rule. NOT that FACTS will stop some of you from arguing and crying about the "old days."

CFM is correct (for once,) that there are some cases where spitting is to your advantage, and others where it is NOT! If you can't figure it out, perhaps you should have finished High School.

The very fact that it is an OPTION, belies any financial considerations or ramifications to your company! Like I said..... 10 hours is 10 hours!

The real culprit to drivers feeling "pushed" is the inability to extend the 14 hour clock for the 2 hour break, or any OTHER delay! But, changing the sleeper rule BACK to 5/5 will not alter this! It would ONLY return us to the time of sleep deprived drivers, and HIGHER fatal accident rates based on lack of SLEEP!

We have ENOUGH dangers on the road today from inattentive drivers on cellphones! We don't need SLEEPY, inattentive drivers on cellphones!! :shock:

 

I think you're way off too:
Mainly because YOU didn't actually READ our remarks well enough. And you've taken this whole thread in a direction which we weren't commenting on. Neither myself nor CFM---said anything about how much sleep is needed for proper rest. We were commenting on the 8/2 split--specifically
the part of not being able to "stop" the clock...In fact, it's the "clock" which
makes these new HOS---more unsafe than the old rules.

No, you're wrong as to the only "reason" drivers took 5hr break after 5hr driving......because apparently you weren't there in "those days"-----drivers took 4 hr break after 5hours driving and only needed 8 hrs of sleeper time. Also, the 15hr Rule- wasn't a Clock at all. Many drivers misinterpeted the sleeper birth split back then and thought it was legal to continue "splitting" the sleeper time continously- when in fact that was never the true intent of the law.

The facts are--sleep associated accidents---HAVE NOT DECLINED since these new rules have been in effect- the data shows "no signifigent" change......if you actually read THIS MONTHS COPY of "The Trucker" you would have seen the article where ATA & OOIDA used the data collected by major carriers...and would know the FACTS are that most drivers- don't
even use the 11th hr of driving-- and most accidents still happen in the first 3hrs of driving.

All that 'using it to your advantage' is impossible when you got to log legal and match the sat. So you're suggesting to FALSIFY your log book- so you
CAN "take advantage" of this....NOW that just don't make any sense to me
and is just bad advice.

And actually I hold a BSBA degree from University of Arkansas- Transportation Management----so I did finish Public High School.
Just didn't major in Spelling or English Lit----sorry!

most of the other comments are very true...and I don't disagree at all-
it's just we (myself or CFM ) never stated what you alleged we did.
Agreed; a driver needs at least 6 good hours of sleep per nite--
Agreed; drivers should be able to drive 11hrs without a 5hr nap.

And if you run for Crete Carrier Corp-----the 2/8 or 8/2 split.....is NOT
ALLOWED---so it's NOT an AVAILABLE OPTION.....so it IS a serious financial consideration.

 

As headborg alluded to there was no such thing as a 5/5 split under the old rules. Under the previous rules, drivers could split sleeper berth time into two segments, as long as no segment was less than 2 hours.

I do disagree as to "splitting" then time continuously. You could in fact split your time continuously. I did it for years. You just had to be careful in how you did it.

kc0iv

kc0iv[/color]

 

Headborg said:

Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers, Borg! I DID read both of your posts. CFM said they "modified" it because truckers were abusing it. YOU said the reason had to do with DOT being too stupid to add numbers, and something about money in their pockets (corruption.)

I simply told the NEW TRUCKERS here what the actual rationale was behind "modifying" the split! The fact that neither of YOU said anything about the amount of sleep needed, is exactly WHY I introduced it. THAT is the sole rationale behind the 8/2 combination. Have you read the LONG version of the Final Ruling? It's ALL ABOUT sleep studies!

I tend to agree! They THOUGHT they were forcing us to get more rest, but it has backfired on them.

That's YOUR opinion. I gave an opinion of why drivers drove for shorter times. It is based on what MANY have told me about how they got TIRED after only 5 hours of driving, and wanted to "split" their 8 hour sleep requirement. I stand by my assertion that they got TIRED after only 5 hours BECAUSE their 4 hour "nap" didn't give them enough rest to handle a full day.

As for the reference to 5/5..... sorry. I KNOW you only needed 8 total, and MOST solo drivers took 3 or 4 at a time, but the drivers I talked to worked for my company... and we drive TEAM. Therefore, it became a standard 5/5 for them. Sorry for the confusion!

I DO read The Trucker, but not sure I've seen the issue you refer to. However, I've BEEN reading the articles by ATA and OOIDA, and it's EASY to see how they slant the figures/facts in their favor. I'm WELL aware that most drivers don't use the 11th hour..... it was ALL covered very well in the Final Ruling. As for most accidents ocurring during the first 3 hours?? I agree! Why?? Because drivers are getting behind the wheel after NOT GETTING ENOUGH REST. As the day goes on, people tend to "wake up" more, and pay better attention. MOST of those figures were culled from years under the OLD rules, and the fact that they continue, is due partly to drivers "cheating" on their 8 hour S/B, AND to the simple fact that this trend ocurrs in MOST industries. People in general start work "groggy."

Not necessarily. I have found MANY instances where, even logging legally, I was able to use the split to my advantage. It may not work for YOU, but it can for others. I don't feel that is "bad advice" anymore than giving "bad reasons" why the FMCSA modified the split.

I wasn't impugning your education. I was using the "collective" YOU when I said (or meant) that any trucker who can't figure out how to make the split advantagious to him should have finished High School. I realize that was a bit harsh. I shouldn't have SAID it!

Actually, the studies show that Senior Citizens often need only 6 hours. Middle aged people need (on average) 7.5 hours of uninterrupted sleep. Those are the facts. FMCSA just rounded it off to 8 hours to cover as MANY variations as they could.

And I didn't "allege" that you or CFM said ANY particular thing... only that it wasn't the REAL reason for the 8/2 ruling.

I don't run for them, and neither does the majority of truckers. I didn't say it was ALWAYS an "available" option. I said it was an OPTION as opposed to a requirement.

 

Why is it, many driver dont mind shutting that truck down for 8 hours, however they log a 10 hour break. Why is it many truckers complain about not having any time to shut down to eat/shower during their day?

My opinion: Just my opinion that is: If you take a habbit of shutting down for 2 hours during your 14 hour period to eat/shower etc and when your 14 hour period is up take an 8 hour sleeper break, you are a safer driver ).
Keep in mind the working time prior to the 2 hour break is going to count against your time after the 8 hour break. If I drive 6/take a 2 hour break and drive 5, then take an 8 hour break, I only have 5 hours driving time and then I am due my 2 hour break (shower/eat etc).
I hope this helps to clarify just a little, however I could give a much deeper discusion about split breaking.
I truley feel if you know how to do it, you are more than likely to run legal at all times and it wil benefiet you and your dispatcher .

Good luck and if you need help just ask

 

I'm sorry to tell you this but ....your math is off by 1hr of driving after the 8hr break.

If you drive 6/take a 2 hour break and drive 5, then take an 8 hour break(sleeper only), you have 6 hours to drive then you are due your 2 hr break because you're at 11hrs driving again(but, you actually have(14-5=9hrs left on clock) 9hrs avail for everything before the next 8hr break----provided you had a 10hr break before you started that cycle.

Now, add some practical Times to the example and see what the 2nd cycle looks like:

Let's say you come on duty at 10am(starting with a 10hr break)-
drive 6 hrs-
it's 4pm( you take 2hr break-at end it's 6pm)
drive 5hrs- it's 11pm(end of 11hrs driving)
8hr break(stops 14hr clock)
7am- you can now drive 6hrs before your next 2hr break(you'll be back at 11hrs total again-(1pm-3pm)

Now, since 6+2+5=13---that only allows 1 hr of wiggle room.

If you fuel-have to wait 30mins for a shower- take a "long" shower and then set down to eat lunch.....lets say it takes 4hrs...now you only have 4hrs to drive before you have to take that 8hr break.
But lets be practical---You couldn't park at the consignee(no parking allowed) so you start your day from truckstop.

You drive 30minutes into consignee----they take 3hrs to unload you-
you then deadhead 2 hrs to your Shipper- they take 2hrs to reload you-
you've burned 7.5hrs of your 14.
Now you can choose---you can drive 7.5hrs toward your consignee
or you could stop-shower-eat- and kill another Xhrs and drive less.

Crete/Shaffer won't allow you to split log---so if you want to eat/shower outside your 10hr break--it's gonna cost you-- drive time.

Also unless you want to pay $7.00 for a shower--you'll have to stop specifically where you are authorized to fuel- or stop for your 10hr break at a place where you have a shower credit. It would be nice if you could
snap your fingers and the "required" truckstop would magically appear just
as that last mile clicked over- and the clock read 10.75hrs driving/ 13.75 hrs out of 14.

Now, I will send you a load offer- with 4 choices. Only accept the one you have hrs to legally run....and you need to respond(make your choice- plan
the trip to ensure you can run it completely legal) within 20minutes.----Oh, and I'm gonna send it out while you're rolling and the qual-comm doesn't work while you're driving--and you better not turn that key off( to read the qual-com) and you have to find a safe place to pull over before you can do all that-- the next rest area is 18miles ahead- and there's no exits with truck parking before the rest area.

 

I admit that splitting can be a good tool in certain instances, but "MANY"? Dunno about that. Especially utilizing 8/2 because you can just take your 10 and get back a fresh 14.

There are plenty of studies that show driving past the 10th hour is inherently dangerous...and yet after 70+ years a deal was cut to bump driving to 11 hours. In fact, the 11 hour driving rule was struck down by the courts for that very reason.

So who are you going to believe? The FMCSA uses studies they want to advance their own interests. In this case, I agree with headborg completely.