[lifespalette]

wow....i get back in, a little down time before bed, and it's right there on the table.

I have to say, some of what the old timer says is the gawd's honest truth... this profession at times does suck..... the pay sucks, the hours suck and the living conditions really suck.

First off, for the new drivers, financially, your first year is going to suck, face it. I would dare say for the most part, you're already in financial straights before you ever climb into the cab and now, you just signed your life away for the next year because some company paid for your schooling that lasted three or more weeks and you haven't earned the first buck yet. And if you bail (and odds are against you), you're going to be stuck with that bill. Meanwhile, momma and the kids are depleting the bank account with daily living expenses. During your training period you're going to be lucky if you make $300 - $400 GROSS per week. Take out the taxes, medical insurance, any advances you've made and YOUR living expenses while on the road and there ain't a whole lot left for momma and the kids. You're going to learn to love peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, cause if you eat out everyday, there goes more of you already tight money that momma and the kids aren't going to get.

Secondly, the hours suck. Your first week you may shut down at night, but by the second week, chances are you're going to be running team hours. You're going to run your ten and you're trainer is going to run his ten. You're going to have to get used to sleeping in a moving box really quick........with all that goes on with it.... the bumps, the jakes, the CB, and if you're really unlucky a trainer who can't carry a tune in a bucket with both hands, but thinks he's the next Elvis. And don't forget the stress, because there will be stress.........for the most part you're going to watch the sun rise and set before your day is done. Each day brings a new place with new challenges on roads and highways you've never been on before leading to places you're not familiar with in all kinda conditions. Here, you make mistakes and it can cost you your job or worse your life.... or the life of your trainer or someone else on the road.......yes... you're going to experience stress. This ain't school no more. This is the real world and you're in it. If the wheels ain't rolling you or the trainer aren't making any money. There are going to be times when you pick your next load up at midnight and hit the road when the only thing you want to do is crawl in the sack and shut your eyes. There are going to be times when you pull up to get your load and you wait... and wait... and wait......only to be told 4 hours later that it'll be tomorrow morning before you can get your load. Get used to it. If the company recruiter told you 3-4 weeks out, plan on 4-5... maybe even 6 if your load manager is a pecker head. Face it OTR, your first year, you're going to be lucky if you see your family 3 or 4 days per month.

As to the living conditions........well remember you're sharing an 8 by 10 walk in closet with another man. You're sharing a bathroom with a hundred other truckers, who aren't nearly as clean as you want them to be at some truck stop or rest stop and you're showering in some place that you don't even want to consider what is on the floors or walls (first rule... never touch any surface with bare skin). The first couple of days it's all exciting and new.... by the end of the week, one truck stop looks just like the last one your were in........one warehouse looks just like the last and the highway you're on is no different than the one your were on yesterday and the day before..... only the trees change. You hookup, you drive, you fuel, you eat, you drive some more, you sleep, you drive, you fuel, you eat, you unhook.... and then you start it all over again. Over and over and over again. Along the way, you'll deal with irate drivers, dock workers, shipping clerks, sales clerks, DOT officials, guards your load manager and a hundred other people who don't give a rat's ass about your problems, they have their own to deal with.

There's a damn good reason why the turn over rate in this industry is somewhere near 130%. I don't care how much research you do, how many drivers you talk to, how many forums you go too, or how tough you think it's going to be.....as a new driver right out of the chute, you haven't got a clue.........none of us did. It's something that too really understand you have to experience it.

So why does anybody do it...........simple. Because you want too or you have too. For some... it's the only option. It does get better after the first year...........as you learn the ropes..... as you get accustomed to the challenges and get some confidence.......it's not easy that's for damn sure. It, like everything else has it's draw backs.......but it also has it's advantages. If you're an independent type person who can meet difficulties with a head on your shoulders and work things out without having someone to tell you what to do.... you can make it in this business and make a fair living for yourself and your family. Like any job or profession now days, it all depends on you............nobody is going to make it easy for you or hand it to you on a silver platter.... it's up to you. If you're willing to work hard, work smart and put up with all the downside aspects of this job..........if you're able to stand on your own two feet, keep your head about you and put in your dues..... you can make it a fairly decent job. Your success depends entirely on you and the path you make. ..... Notice I said make............cause ain't nobody going to give it to you.

I, like Ardmore, do it because I want too..........not because I have to. I can stay at home if I want.... we could live off my wife's salary very easily and anything extra I bring in is just icing on the cake. I can just as easily sit at home and do the occasional contract design job and throw that money into the IRA or the stock portfolio.......our kids are all grown and out on their own........it's just us two and the cats....and although we enjoy each others company we also need our own space.

My first year was hell......I thought constantly, why the hell I was doing this.......my 4 weeks in training, although I had an old timer who pounded the professional aspects of everything about being driver into me, there were times he wanted to put me out on the side of the road and believe me there were times I wanted to get out..........looking back I couldn't have made it without his encouragement and understanding........and once I got out on my own, there were many times I had to say a silent thanks pops for being hard on me......for pushing me....hell... I can still see him seating there in the jump seat with the damn smirk on his face saying...."there's the hard way to do this job and there's the easy way to do this job... why in the world so many knuckleheads want to do it the hard way is beyond understanding....it's hard enough as it is, why be stupid."

The only thing I can say is something I used to tell my clients who wanted to renovate their house....... figure out how much it's going to cost you and how much time you think it'll take... and double it.... then you're getting close to reality...... well new drivers, figure out how much it's going to cost you in time, money and heartache...........and double it. Your first year or so... you're gonna make far less than what you think, it's going to take more time than you think and it's going to be harder than you think............on both you and your family. Ain't no guaranties, just opportunity.

Why the hell anybody would decide to get into this business I'll never understand......like the old timer said.... it just plain sucks at times...........but there ain't nothing like it and unless you do it, you ain't never gonna understand that statement.

[Wolfman74]

My final opinion about this post ,
There are some of us who have no choice but to get into this industry .Especially if we have made mistakes when we was younger , prison etc etc .And if your man enough to start a family then you gotta do what you gotta do as a man to support your family,even if it means the o'lady breaks bad and leaves finds another man and starts filing for child support,.I would much rather feel proud of paying that child support for my kids driving a truck than be a dead beat father who has a chance at driving a truck but decides to believe he will be hired at a local factory etc etc knowing damn well the felonys or the past bad things prevents it from happining.Just as long if your trying is one thing.
Way i see it take all the mental stress and the possibilites of what might happen at home while gone and double it and develop a strong ambition to get you through your first year or 18 months of OTRDing,then once you have gotten the OTR experiance start spending time at home finding a local Class A truck driving position,iam pretty sure most familes who dosen't have issues with the spouses cheating on each other and have been together for a decent amount of time can make it a year and if a woman cannot wait 1 year while you are eating dollar general foods and sending her almost every dollar you earn then something was wrong from the start and it just wasn't ment to be.
And if this happens you can honestly say to yourself "i sure as hell tried" and still have that pride of earing that CDL and atleast working for a honest living.True love will conquer all and true love can sure as hell hold on for 1-2 years .On the other hand going OTR for a lifelong carrer with a family no matter how strong the love is another thing and i personally wouldn't do it or recomend it. Do it the smart way get the CDL get the experiance and i gurentee there are many local companys to drive for making decent money and home with your family everynight or every weekend, i see it all the time in the help wanted adds in the papers, and when you read those adds your like " damn if i only had a CDL and a little experiance".But like i said some of us have made mistakes when we were young and some with very little or no schooling and no skills ,there is nothing out there for these types of people to support yourself let alone a family , so you gotta do what you gotta do as a man !~

WolfMan~

[Ardmore Farms Forever]

Originally Posted by Karnajj

Its so shot full of holes (especially the part about the two fast food jobs) it isn't even worth reading.

I agree with the fast-food analogy, I never have understood the "would you like fries" option when discussing trucking........maybe I'm like a man from another time and just don't understand.

Where I do have a problem though...............as stated in the original post, this is just one mans opinion, right or wrong, he is entitles to it and one is entitled to disagree or agree............

I personally love this industry and couldn't think of anything I would rather be doing, that being said, Where I thought this post would be beneficial, is backed up by FACTS......

Fact #1:....the turnover rate in the "trucking industry" is at all time high, according to the ATA..........

Fact#2:.....daily, people who can least afford the $$$'s, enthusiastically enter the "trucking industry", with the hopes of improving their lives, spending their life-savings or going in debt for thousands of $$'s, to be trained to drive the "Big Rigs" over-the-road, only to find out in a short period of time, it's not what they envisioned and/or after expenses, amount of hours involved in driving on the road, is not anywhere near what they expected to make.............the sad part though, once they find out it's not for them, more times than not it's to late, they are STILL left with a tremendous debt to be paid off, or face financial ruin, all because of a misplaced dream of running over-the-roads.....or having a complete misconception of this industry.......these are FACTS, not hyperbole.

Fact#3:.....many trucking companies will gladly enroll the "Newbie" driver into what is commonly refered to as the "indentured Servitude" program, where in exchange for training, you drive for a given period of time for the training company at a rate that I personally find disgraceful and consider insulting.......if one decides that trucking is NOT for them before the time-period is up and leaves, they are STILL responsible for paying off the cost of that training.......sometimes amounting to thousands of $$$'s.

As far as "shot full of hole", that is debatable, it seems that more people than not agree with his position on certain parts of his opinion.......so maybe just maybe your statement has just been "shot full of holes" and as far as not worth reading.........just like today, I seem to remember the last time I posted this, you said the same thing.......yet, offer nothing to counter his point that would even remotely be considered substantive, constructive or authoritative.......just criticism, with nothing to back it up.

Your statement, sort of reminds me of politics these day between the "Republicans" and "Democrats"...............all the "Democrats" do is obstruct and criticize, yet offer nothing or anything that would even be considered a solutions...........criticize and kill the messenger is all they can offer........ :shock: :shock: :shock:

Karnajj, don't think I'm jumping on you, I actually respect and enjoy reading your opinions........just please back up what you are saying next time with facts or something used as a "bench mark" to compare it to.........that's all.

[driver2b]

I read 90% of the posts... a few stick out... what I can say is this... as a newbie, there are a lot of companies that have walked me out the door because I have no OTR experience. Those same companies pay more per mile than the three companies that have pre-approved me. luckily for me, I can wait a little while and pick what I *think* is the best one, I might be wrong, I might make a mistake but it'll be the *best* one. My question is simple, if there is such high turn over in OTR then how come so many OTR companies turn down new drivers? Second, there are *good* P&D (peddle?) companies around where I live that want 1-3 years experience (!) - home nightly, work dock and drive, more years = more drive time (better routes, I guess). It's called a job because it's work, that's not too high level to understand. It (OTR) would be great if it was fun but I don't think it will be *fun* (paid to have fun - that would be cool). Negative/Positive attitudes... well, it's all here in these posts from drivers (hopefully not too many deadbeat trolls). I'll tell you one thing, thank you *real* truck drivers out there who take the time to post... you've helped me! By the way, even *bankers hours* have changed (and they are located at stores and malls now)... and how about old beat up sales men (me :-)... not too old... but I have buddies beat up at their jobs too. There's a lot of bit*chin and complaining about trucking companies (this website *REALLY* helps) and CAD adds tremendous valve to drivers and new drivers about companies to *avoid*... hello, no slander, just flat-out first person experiences are GREAT STUFF! ...again, thanks for the tips drivers.

Now what about advice for newbie regarding real world safety and hours? If I am at 10.45 drive hours and pull over to sleep/rest but I am 3 hours away from drop, will I get a phone call or email telling me to "drive on" or else? Believe it or not, I have asked this question during interviews and recruiters have tripped up... this is *not* a good sign. What does a newbie do? I'd say this newbie drives safe first. Can I expect getting blown out for not driving over hours? (no, I don't think so) (or actually terminated for insubordination (add *any* trumped up reason)). Add in the punitive false DAC report additions that are were documented on this site... any (well, most) comments appreciated.

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by driver2b

My question is simple, if there is such high turn over in OTR then how come so many OTR companies turn down new drivers?

Because their insurance companies won't accept new drivers due to the increased risk of liability. The drivers they already have ruined it for the drivers coming in. As far as insurance companies go, past performance indicates future results.

Now what about advice for newbie regarding real world safety and hours? If I am at 10.45 drive hours and pull over to sleep/rest but I am 3 hours away from drop, will I get a phone call or email telling me to "drive on" or else?

You might.

What does a newbie do? I'd say this newbie drives safe first.

Then I suggest you sign on with a company that runs legal no matter what.

Can I expect getting blown out for not driving over hours? (no, I don't think so) (or actually terminated for insubordination (add *any* trumped up reason)).

Again, it might happen.

[driver2b]

i will definitely maintain my own journal that briefly documents conversations I have with my dispatcher/terminal manager. having something written down is a very powerful tool as apposed to saying to a judge "one day he said this, the other day she said that" I'll say "On Sept 12, 2006 John Doe, dispatcher, acknowledged I'm at my hour limit yet told me to drive on or else. He won't answer what the "or else" was but he was very upset. I told him I'll drive on ASAP when I am back in hours."

as far a driving safe - I'll be driving safe alright, I won't jeopardize my career, life or the life of others for a mad dispatcher or terminal manager.

regarding good or bad trucking companies, how many times have I heard "Foreign car brand A never breaks down, Domestic brand Z always breaks down" even though the stats might prove otherwise. My point is when one, two or three companies constantly have negative things said about them a newbie like me must stay away for fear of repeating another person's mistake. Sort of like "a wise man learns from others' mistakes" or something like that.

so basically, CAD rocks! and the real drivers that point out the good bad and ugly are much appreciated.

now if I can just find a OTR dedicated run, home every 3-4 days, that pays decent :-)

[lifespalette]

Ardomore... your points are right on the target. ... all but the Democrat one. :wink: :wink: ....just kidding, blinded democrats are just as bad as blinded republicans........issues, issues, issues...party lines be damned.

Driver2b... the Rev is right. It's an insurance thing.....actuaries know that inexperienced drivers are involved in more accidents than experienced drivers....accidents that involves trucks usually means deep pockets to most lawyers, that means lost revenue to trucking companies.

Now what about advice for newbie regarding real world safety and hours? If I am at 10.45 drive hours and pull over to sleep/rest but I am 3 hours away from drop, will I get a phone call or email telling me to "drive on" or else?

My first reaction is that if you run out of drive hours just 3 hours short of your drop point, you might want to rethink your trip-planning. You want to avoid those type of situations. Second, most time if you have a load manager who wants you to run over the limit, he's going to be talking to you on the phone (something that isn't on the record). It's handled pretty easily, just ask him..."If you're asking me to violate Federal DOT regs on the HOS and the company's official safety mission statement, please put it on the record and send me an Qualcomm message to that sort and I'll be more than happy to take it up with the Director of Safety. If he approves it with a confirmation Qualcomm message directing me to do just that .. no problem." A - the load manager isn't going to send you any such message, (Qualcomm traffic is kept on file for 5 years per FDOT regs) it is admissible in any court case and is one of the first place investigators will start looking, along with your logs. The load manager is in, most cases, trying to clean up some mess he made.........at your risk. Remember this for future reference......"Piss poor planning on management's part does not constitute an emergency on your part." B - even if he's stupid enough to send you the message.....I seriously doubt the Safety Director is going to buy into it......chances are he's not that stupid.

Can I expect getting blown out for not driving over hours? (no, I don't think so) (or actually terminated for insubordination (add *any* trumped up reason)).

Like Rev. says.... it could happen. But why let it get to that point. Remember, you're a new driver.......the company will try and get away with anything they can with you as long as it increases their bottom line .......but let's say you're trying to prove your self with the company.... you pick up on time, you delivery on time, you take even the crappy loads when they come up (remembering the $100 bucks you made net on the short run is still $100 bucks more than you had by just sitting waiting for the next "sweat" load). You prove yourself to your load manager. It's in his best interest to not screw you with trumped up accusations, it's in the best interest of the company to not have to bring someone else on board. New hires cost money.......it's a money thing.

It's my opinion, and with that and $1.29 I can get a large coffee at the Stop N Go, new drivers would far better off worrying about what they can do to prove to the company that they're busting their asses off to learn enough to be valuable assets to the company. Hauling freight is a competitive business, every new driver is a deduction from the revenue stream. While you're in training... it's lost revenue and a decreased ROI in equipment. Even once you get your own rig, it's still a decreased revenue stream while you're learning....and you're going to be learning for the next decade. The more proficient you are at your profession, the more profit they make. The more proficient you are at your profession, the more net profit you make as a driver.

The bottom line.......make yourself as valuable as you can to the company and the odds that they are going to screw you are minimized. It's all about business. Granted in the world today, of "me" attitudes, that's an old concept.........but it works.

[driver2b]

"might want to rethink your trip-planning"

nope, all have told me they provide directions to businesses or drop yards (whatever), all have gps and other electronic tools... unless it's weather or mechanical related... we're not reinventing the wheel here.

if I said *all* OTR companies have walked me then I meant to say many or most OTR companies because of lack of experience. of course there some OTR's that take on newbies and they appear on the surface to be straight shooters... so, we'll see... soon enough.

my humble advice to a newbie is read as much as you can take, ask the questions and make your choice. unless you have real bad luck you have to be right 1 out of 3... just bear in mind that there are many more OTR's... keep looking. Don't settle. That's what I tell myself.

"would far better off worrying about what they can do to prove to the company that they're busting their asses off to learn enough to be valuable assets to the company."

this raises eyebrows and your post brags a few questions but additional questions would be off topic so I'll stop.

by the way Thank You. this:
..."If you're asking me to violate Federal DOT regs on the HOS and the company's official safety mission statement, please put it on the record and send me an Qualcomm message to that sort and I'll be more than happy to take it up with the Director of Safety. If he approves it with a confirmation Qualcomm message directing me to do just that .. no problem."

...is perfect!

[lifespalette]

nope, all have told me they provide directions to businesses or drop yards (whatever), all have gps and other electronic tools... unless it's weather or mechanical related... we're not reinventing the wheel here.

Whoa..... are you in for a big surprise. More times than not your directions from your dispatcher are going to be wrong or confusing at the least. Get you a new copy of the Driver's Atlas... learn how to use it......if you're not checking out each and every direction given to you to confirm the route, you are most likely to find that you're wasting a lot of time. Time is money. The GPS is part of the Qualcomm transponder..... it's for the company's use to track your movement, time and vehicle conditions.........not for you to view a map.......Hell, is there any training company out there that provides drivers with a GPS way finding screen......maybe someone else can add some input here...........as to the "other electronic tools"....... that's a vague statement that needs some more input from you..........what other tools are you talking about.

When you get your load assignment, you're going to get a pick up date, time and Consignor information, along with some routing directions that some dispatcher has taken off of map-quest or map2it (you'll learn how up to date and reliable those are), it's going to include some destination point with date, time and Consignee information. There is going to be some information as to the load... .type, weight, restrictions, etc. etc..

For the most part your delivery window is based on some table formula, taking into considerations, expected conditions, MPH's, large cities, etc., etc......and once you accept the load, it's up to you to make it work with your available hours. Nobody is hanging over your shoulder telling you how to do it............that's the trip planning I'm referring too......the first time you miss a date or time, because you had bad directions from the dispatcher, and you didn't confirm the directions, but blindly followed them..........your fleet manager isn't going to be too sympathetic.

Get into the habit of calling each new client your picking up at to confirm the local directions once you get into the destination town or city.......when you get to your destination, call the customer you're delivering to for their local directions. Like many drivers here, I can't count on both hands and feet the number of times, I was given a time slot only to find the front gates locked, or that the original directions were to some location that the customer used to be at..........or my favorite, on some road behind the plant where the truck gate used to be...................

If you can afford it... get you a good cell phone with a nation wide roaming plan. Get you a laptop with a good mapping program that you can get updates on regularly.... or better yet, a wireless NIC card and satilite ISP provider where you can get Internet access along most of the major corridors. The Internet is a great source of information.

Driver2b......if you're going to rely on the dispatcher's directions as gospel..... I think you'll find very few drivers out on the road who don't think you're in for some hard lessons learned.

[driver2b]

cell phone with roaming plus package, check; tomtom.com GPS, check; truckers road atlas, check; truck stop/plaza guide, check. cb, check. I don't know what else I can do except hope that I do not make a mistake and join a company with Mr Wacko safety manager who moonlights as a dispatcher for extra cash (just kidding)... seriously, I'm not risking my life, career or another motorists life to make the drop on time. and if somebody says "you won't last in this business" then I'd suggest they refer to all the DAC horror stories of guys and gals getting hurt by trucking companies for reasons that appear in their control, like saying "no, I won't go until I have rested". I think there's a trade-off here, safety verse on time and I know my choice.