[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

The stars CAN'T "fall" from the heavens, because the Earth (or even our sun) is not the center of the universe. STARS are actually other "suns." They can explode... but, they cannot "fall" into OUR atmosphere. Prophesiers are liars. Or, to be more empathetic... they are disillusioned dreamers with no regard to science.

The "prophesies" were written by MORTAL men, with NO understanding of the universe, and motivated ONLY by religious beliefs and ignorance.

"Prophesies" have no impact on anyone who doesn't "buy" the religious explanation for creation. And THAT explanation implies that the Earth is the center of the universe, and all of the "stars" were put there for our viewing.

We now know better than that.

Just one question.....

Do you believe that ESP may exist within some people????

And, is it possible that some of that ESP might be the source of Prophesies???

Ok... I lied... Two questions....

[Sharlie]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

The stars CAN'T "fall" from the heavens, because the Earth (or even our sun) is not the center of the universe. STARS are actually other "suns." They can explode... but, they cannot "fall" into OUR atmosphere. Prophesiers are liars. Or, to be more empathetic... they are disillusioned dreamers with no regard to science.

I'll take you at your word that STARS can explode, but if the ORIGINAL text doesn't use the word STAR(even if the Good KJ says star, I'm willing to wager that in Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek the word was Celestial body...... which can be a STAR or a meteor.

Originally Posted by golfhobo

The "prophesies" were written by MORTAL men, with NO understanding of the universe, and motivated ONLY by religious beliefs and ignorance.

"Prophesies" have no impact on anyone who doesn't "buy" the religious explanation for creation. And THAT explanation implies that the Earth is the center of the universe, and all of the "stars" were put there for our viewing.

We now know better than that.

We shall see

Before all that technology they had straight from the mouth of GOD the bible and the prophets.

If we aren't the center..... I'm sure there are plenty of other life forms just wanting to land here. , Agree to disagree

[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by Sharlie

I'll take you at your word that STARS can explode, but if the ORIGINAL text doesn't use the word STAR(even if the Good KJ says star, I'm willing to wager that in Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek the word was Celestial body...... which can be a STAR or a meteor.

Close to what I was going to say... We know that various original wording changed in translation. Going from Arameic, to Greek, to English, the wording could have changed our preception of the meaning more than once. And, you could say that "stars" have been falling from the heavens all our lives... "Shooting Stars" are a nightly event. Thousands in one year.

But, suppose the original wording said the Sun would fall from the sky. It is possible (though, it may not be in our lifetimes) for a large heavenly body to pass through our solar system, close to the earth, and disrupt the sun's gravity, dragging the earth off into deep space. It would seem as though the sun was leaving (falling) from our skies. And, without the warmth of the sun, the earth would be doomed. A rogue planet, the size of Saturn could pass at twice the distance of the moon, and the gravitational pull could be enormous. There would not have to be a collision. Now, keep in mind that the Andromeda Galaxy is on a collision course with the Milky Way. They say that collisions will be extemely rare, but what about the gravity fields. How will they interact?

Pretty hard to say you have an accurate quote if you do not have the original text in front of you. But, it doesn't mean you can not discount the quote.

[golfhobo]

Originally Posted by Windwalker

Just one question.....

Do you believe that ESP may exist within some people????

Yes, there is ample scientific evidence of ESP, and we all know that the average human uses only about 10% of his brain. Who knows what might be in just the next 2 or 3%?

And, is it possible that some of that ESP might be the source of Prophesies???

Highly unlikely. As I recall (and it's been years since I paid any attention to discussions about ESP,) the powers relate almost entirely to thoughts or events that are happening at the current time, regardless of distance from the subject. I don't recall any instances of some sort of historical knowledge, let alone future facts. Although, I must confess an obsession with the likes of Nostradamus. I suppose I should have been more specific in saying "Biblical" prophesies rather than just prophesies in general.

It is entirely possible that the biblical prophesiers had some ability such as Nostradamus'... but, were relating everything they saw to their belief in the second coming of their Messiah. It could BE that they foresaw some cataclysmic end of the world, but then confused (or colored) it with biblical beliefs.

Alot is said on this board about "bias." Can you not see how someone who so desperately WANTED to believe in this "second coming," would slant everything they MIGHT have 'foreseen' as being indicative of the biblical endtimes? Nostradamus was a scientist and barely mentioned biblical relationships.

[golfhobo]

Sharlie said:

I'll take you at your word that STARS can explode,

Google super-nova.

but if the ORIGINAL text doesn't use the word STAR(even if the Good KJ says star, I'm willing to wager that in Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek the word was Celestial body...... which can be a STAR or a meteor.

Or a planet.... but, I'll take that bet (and explain why in my response to Windy.)

Before all that technology they had straight from the mouth of GOD the bible and the prophets.

They also had the Dark Ages! But, to my knowledge only Moses ever claimed to actually have heard the voice of God directly. The bible came AFTER (or concurrent with) the prophesies, and the prophets were not talking to themselves. IOW.... before all that science came ONLY the bible, which included the prophesies of the prophets, or the writings of the prophets which were not based on anything but their own beliefs and introspective discussions with their god.

If we aren't the center..... I'm sure there are plenty of other life forms just wanting to land here.

Why? And if God created them... will they look just like US?

[golfhobo]

Windy said:

Close to what I was going to say... We know that various original wording changed in translation. Going from Arameic, to Greek, to English, the wording could have changed our preception of the meaning more than once. ...But, suppose the original wording said the Sun would fall from the sky.

Not likely. I don't have the original text or papyrus in front of me, but as a former linguist, I can tell you that ONE word does not become FOUR words and different phrases during a translation. Here is the KJ Version of it:

Matthew 24:29-31:

29 "Immediately after the distress of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

It is clear that the original text was written by people who had 4 different words for sun, moon, stars, and celestial bodies. And they ascribed specific occurences to each. I'm pretty sure it was translated fairly accurately. Even at that time, people had seen 'shooting stars' and yet saw that the well known stars remained in place. They certainly knew the difference (to some extent) between the sun and the moon and the stars.

What they certainly did NOT know was that the stars were, themselves, suns in other galaxies. They may have mistook them for meteors that appeared to be "shooting stars." I'm sure they had seen (very clearly) the Perseiod Shower. But.... it comes every year, and cannot be considered a forboding of the endtimes.

The sun and the moon COULD both be blocked temporarily by something like the eruption of Vesuvius, and an earthquake might make them "foretell" the shaking of other planets (if they knew of them,) but STARS falling from the sky? It's clear what they THOUGHT would happen.... but, it is fantasy.

It is possible (though, it may not be in our lifetimes) for a large heavenly body to pass through our solar system, close to the earth, and disrupt the sun's gravity, dragging the earth off into deep space. It would seem as though the sun was leaving (falling) from our skies. And, without the warmth of the sun, the earth would be doomed. A rogue planet, the size of Saturn could pass at twice the distance of the moon, and the gravitational pull could be enormous. There would not have to be a collision. Now, keep in mind that the Andromeda Galaxy is on a collision course with the Milky Way. They say that collisions will be extemely rare, but what about the gravity fields. How will they interact?

I LOVE talking scientific theory with you, so I will certainly get back to this. But, for tonight... I'm out of time. But, your whole premise is based on a mistranslation between "stars" and the "sun" and I've adequately explained how that is probably NOT the case.

[Sharlie]

Originally Posted by golfhobo

They also had the Dark Ages! But, to my knowledge only Moses ever claimed to actually have heard the voice of God directly.

Your first mistake, just off the top of my head I can think of many that HEARD the voice of GOD. Abraham, Jesus, (how about all those people that heard the VOICE when the dove decended? Who was it Jesus the vantrilaquist? Since you are taking the Bible's word on who has heard the voice of GOD. Try reading the book of Samuel, when he was a child sleeping who was calling his name in the middle of the night? Again this is just from my knowledge which isn't as vast as others of the WORD. Noah heard from who? oh yeah God, Adam walked in the garden with who? oh yeah GOD. Now again since you are accepting Moses and since I doubt you were old enough to be there.... what's your source? The bible is full of Men hearing from GOD.

The bible came AFTER (or concurrent with) the prophesies, and the prophets were not talking to themselves. IOW.... before all that science came ONLY the bible, which included the prophesies of the prophets, or the writings of the prophets which were not based on anything but their own beliefs and introspective discussions with their God.

God let us know that HE is real through accurately detailing future events through prophecy. There is so many full filled prophecies I don't even know where to start but Daniel predicts the empires from nebuchadnezzar pretty much today's EU.

How about the prophecy that states the Israelis will be scattered throughout the earth but then brought back to their land? (FYI) no people have ever done that before, ask a native american?