[Ptarmigan]

Originally Posted by robertt

Well, I HAVE been to NUMEROUS countries and some of them NUMEROUS times. I spent ALOT of time ALL over Europe, been to Australia a couple of times, Japan, Korea, Guam, all over South America, Grenada, Iceland, Saudi, France, Peuto Rico (yes I know it's a U.S. territory), Africa (numerous places), and on and on. Yes, they are "free", and some of them are beautiful places, and MOST ALL of them, not all but MOST, the people can't get enough "stories" about the USA. Do you have ANY idea how many women from OTHER countries want to marry an American so they can live HERE and LEAVE where they are living now? I do. Ever here of mail order brides? Have you ever seen an American girl who wants to marry somebody from another country so they can leave HERE? How many "kids" are being adopted to come HERE. You couldn't pay me enough to live ANYWHERE but here. Are their people who move over and stay? Sure. One thing though, I bet you a hundredgazzilionbilliontrillion dollars that more people are coming HERE than are leaving to either go back to their "home" country or are leaving because it "really sucks" being here. And they are coming HERE because of what WE ARE and HAVE BEEN, not because they are thinking,"hey, I'm betting that the U.S. is going to suck really bad someday like the place I'm leaving, so I'll just I'll just move back to my country when that happens". I do have friends who have stayed in some of these countries because they married someone from that country, but, EVERYONE of them has moved back to the good ole USofA.

HELLS BELLS!!! Ptarmigan even moved over HERE from another country for "whatever" reason, education, work, women, whatever, but he's HERE. There is SOMETHING here he needed or wanted that he couldn't get in his HOME country. You don't just move that far away from "home", just "because". He wants to "change" everything, but he's HERE, in "THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA"!!!

Just sayin.

For someone who keeps commenting that I am antagonizing you, you have now brought me up on several topics.

I don't want to change anything Robertt, I want the government to follow the constitution, which was there long before you or I. I think we just have different interpretations of what that involves.

I don't want to change the constitution, I want it followed, even when that's unpopular.

I suggest a truce. You stop making every thread about me, and I'll stop responding when you make every thread about me. Sound good?

[Ptarmigan]

Originally Posted by robertt

Well, I HAVE been to NUMEROUS countries and some of them NUMEROUS times. I spent ALOT of time ALL over Europe, been to Australia a couple of times, Japan, Korea, Guam, all over South America, Grenada, Iceland, Saudi, France, Peuto Rico (yes I know it's a U.S. territory), Africa (numerous places), and on and on. Yes, they are "free", and some of them are beautiful places, and MOST ALL of them, not all but MOST, the people can't get enough "stories" about the USA.

Isn't it cool to have traveled. You have been to some of the places I have seen. It's not necessarily about the enumerated freedoms. Most western nations have at least de facto freedom of speech and religion, freedom of association, due process, all those things. I think the thing that makes the US so attractive to so many people is the things you cannot see written down. The spirit of entrepreneurship, the belief in hard work and reward for same, the belief that any man, whatever his creed, or background, can achieve given hard work and focus. Governor Schwarzenegger is a great example of this. Sergey Brin, co-founder of Google was born in Russia, and he's now a billionaire at 36, Pierre Omidyar, founder of Ebay, John Catsimatidis, grocery magnate, John Kluge, Igor Olenicoff, Haim Saban, Patrick Soon-Shiong.

All these men came here, invented, created or founded something, and are all billionaires, first generation immigrants, all of them.

[Ptarmigan]

Originally Posted by robertt

HELLS BELLS!!! Ptarmigan even moved over HERE from another country for "whatever" reason, education, work, women, whatever, but he's HERE. There is SOMETHING here he needed or wanted that he couldn't get in his HOME country. You don't just move that far away from "home", just "because". He wants to "change" everything, but he's HERE, in "THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA"!!!

Just sayin.

I came here for a woman, I stayed here because I find my accent gets me laid an awful lot :thumbsup:

[Jay B]

Originally Posted by Dejanh

Its not Socialism that got us spending money we didn't have and buying things we could not afford, it was rotten Capitalism that made you believe that everything is fine as long as you are spending money and buying things.

Companies got rich of off peoples health, at least in Greece you can see a doctor for free, here you cant and we are still broke and owe more that 13 Trillion to the rest of the world.

You need to look in the mirror and put the blame where it belongs.

You sound unhappy here. You and your butt buddy Sean Penn should move to Venezuala.

No, I'm serious. Get out of the U.S. You like socialism and hate capitalism? Well the best part of the freedoms that we have here in the U.S. is that you are free to get out and not come back. I suggest you go immediately.

[bentstrider]

Originally Posted by Jay B

You sound unhappy here. You and your butt buddy Sean Penn should move to Venezuala.

No, I'm serious. Get out of the U.S. You like socialism and hate capitalism? Well the best part of the freedoms that we have here in the U.S. is that you are free to get out and not come back. I suggest you go immediately.

If anything, it's the punks who decided to spend what they didn't have and are now asking for a handout that should leave.
The mantra for everyone should be "you got yourself into this mess, now find a way to get out of it."

Survival of the fittest, gradual elimination of the weakest.

[Dejanh]

Originally Posted by Twilight Flyer

I think what's absolutely clear here, Dejanh, is that you have zero idea what socialism is all about.

You should go sit down before you hurt yourself. :roll:

And you know just because you're a moderator or ?

Maybe you gonna quote Yahoo news again, ain't ya?

[Dejanh]

Originally Posted by Jay B

You sound unhappy here.

On contrary, I am very happy here and I said that many times, OVER AND OVER AGAIN. All the hate towards Obama and the government comes from those who are not happy or have no idea what happiness is and are looking for every possible reason to blame government for everything.

Originally Posted by Jay B

You and your butt buddy Sean Penn should move to Venezuala.

Why should i move anywhere, this is my country and who are you to tell me to move?

Originally Posted by Jay B

No, I'm serious. Get out of the U.S. You like socialism and hate capitalism?

Who likes socialism? I never said that. People are talking about something they know nothing about and blaming everything and everybody for their problems.

Originally Posted by Jay B

Well the best part of the freedoms that we have here in the U.S. is that you are free to get out and not come back.

Every country gives you that right Einstein, that's why there are immigrants here.

Originally Posted by Jay B

I suggest you go immediately.

Put it in a suggestion box, together with all other BS spewed here.

[GMAN]

Originally Posted by Dejanh

You speak like you know it....
No its not free, people pay for it and how can you then call it socialized medicine, that is the charge that you have been throwing out there, isn't it?

It is socialism because the government takes money from the people in the form of taxes and then gives a small portion of that money back to them in the form of social services. In this case, it is healthcare. And this bill is not about providing healthcare. It is about insurance. Ultimately, Obama and company want to have a single payer system where we all will need to look to the government for your healthcare. That healthcare will be rationed, just as medicaid is currently rationed to some extent.

How do you know anything about socialism, have you ever lived anywhere where they practice it?

I don't need to live under socialism to understand it. I have seen the results of socialism in a number of places in the world during my life time.

There are MANY lies in Capitalism as well, does that make them equal?

So its not socialism then....

You are comparing apples to oranges. I don't think that you really understand what true socialism entails. There is nothing equal between capitalism and socialism. They are totally different systems. Capitalism works. Socialism doesn't.

It doesn't matter. No one ever files for bankruptcy because they get sick, PERIOD.

No, they die from not receiving needed care when they get too sick or too old.

What freedoms do you have that people in Greece do not, or people in England or in Germany. The fact is that you dont really know what you are talking about as you have never been anywhere but the continental US and maybe Canada. If you go out of the box for just a little bit, you will see that many of these countries have better living standard that you in many ways EVEN TOUGH THEY HAVE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.

I have also been to Mexico. Does that count? I am not sure what you mean when you say that those countries have a better standard of living than in the U.S. The main freedom that we will lose is FREEDOM OF CHOICE. We have the freedom to choose to get healthcare or not. We have the freedom to select the doctor or healthcare facility of our choice. I also have the freedom to buy health insurance or not. I currently have the freedom to spend my money on anything that I want. I don't want the government to tell me where or how to spend my money. They do enough of that as it already. Perhaps you could explain what you mean about their standard of living.

You are comparing socialism with Stalin ism. Stalin was a dictator who used his powers over people, thats not socialism. true form of socialism has never been implemented just as the true form of capitalism.

This is beginning to sound like Obama. Stalin was not unique or original in his thinking. His philosophies started with Lenin.

You had a really good example that Capitalism doesn't work as well just last year, when the whole country almost dipped in a depression of unseen proportions...where government had to step in and socialize many of these hard core capitalist companies.

Capitalism was not allowed to work when the government stepped in and took over the banking, insurance and auto companies. It isn't capitalism that doesn't work. It is big government that doesn't work. The inefficiencies of big government will always result in failure. Those companies should not have been allowed to survive unless they could have done so without government intervention. In reality, the companies would likely have been broken up into smaller pieces or sold to the highest bidder to satisfy their debts. I doubt that they would have closed, merely taken on a new form or have a change in ownership. Under capitalism the strong survive and the inefficient or weak fail. I don't know about you, but my business was in a depression along with most of the rest of the trucking industry the last year and a half.

One reason that socialism has never worked is that it breeds inefficiency. It takes away the incentive to produce and to do your best. You are much too young to remember the bread lines that citizens of some of the socialist countries had to endure a few decades ago. Supplies were limited due to the lack of productivity. Workers did not have to do their best, so they didn't. They were paid the same wages no matter what their level of productivity. They had no fear of losing their government jobs.

[robertt]

Originally Posted by Dejanh

All the hate towards Obama and the government comes from those who are not happy or have no idea what happiness is and are looking for every possible reason to blame government for everything.

Thats funny. I'm the happiest at this point in my life as I have EVER been and I think obama AND the gov't SUCKS! Dem's and Rep's. Gov't is the one giving US a reason to blame the Gov't. I DO know what happiness is because I have been where there is NO happiness, so you can count me as one person.....you REALLY don't know, so maybe that wasn't a very thought out statement. I have a few good ole belly laughs EVERYDAY. I cut-up and joke all day long. My friends and my family are VERY happy people and they ALL think obama and the gov't sucks. IF your statement were true.....their would be A LOT of unhappy people around and I just ain't see'n it.

I DO think we are STILL the greatest country in the world, for now, and I TRULY believe we are headed in the wrong direction just as strongly as some of you think we are headed in the right direction. You were speaking of capitalism earlier. How do you think obama and all of those in charge, the "rich" folks, got rich? CAPITALISM!!! They got rich BECAUSE of capitalism, NOT in spite of it. "They" have accumulated it and "made" it over the years, through ALL of the past Presidents and administrations, (although some have tried to make it harder than others), it hasn't JUST happened overnight, since obama was elected. All they want to do is take from YOU, GIVE to your neighbor, so THEY can KEEP for themselves. Do you honestly think they are going to give up any of their wealth? Shoot no. As they shouldn't, but don't TELL me I HAVE to. NOBODY should be "forced" into giving up anything, monetary or otherwise, that they have so someone else that hasn't worked for "it" can have "it". Did you hear obama's speech the other day? "Although I must say.....At some point, I DO think you've made enough money". :eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2: SAY WHAT???

What's the point? Is he going to give up any of his millions? (Yes he gives to charity). How many millions is he "allowed" to have? I think I saw his NET worth was like 4 million. IMHO, who needs 4 mill to live on? You start accumulating money and then you start worrying who's stealing it or who "want's" to steal it. Who sets the standard?

Say the stock market takes off and you hit it big. (Just an example). YOU and your money EARN a few hundred thousand or so and some gov't schmuck comes in and say's, "you know Mr. Dejanh, you've got just a little too much money. Joe blow down the street hasn't worked in 3 years and he REALLY needs some money". How's that going to sit with you? I know it's completely hypothetical, but just THINK about that. And I know that's not exactly how it works, but indirectly through taxes it is.

But for real. Don't tell me I'm unhappy just because I think obama and the gov't sucks. I control my OWN happiness.....thank you very much.

[BigWheels]

Deep within the very core of a liberal, progressive, and/or socialist beats the heart of a capitalist.

How many dirt-poor Democrats in Congress do you know?

Most of them are millionaires. How did they make their millions? Not in a Socialist-run system.

Liberals, progressives, socialists, etc., love power. They crave it. For them it is Nirvana. In order to get power and hold on to power, you need money. Where do you get money? Either you work your azz off in a Capitalist system or you syphon off $$ from people in a Socialist system. But you need money in order to play and stay in the game.

George Soros. Liberal. Progressive. Multi-gazillionaire. Capitalist. Just think: where would George be today if it wasn't for evil capitalism and the ability to make a butt-load of money? Maybe driving a truck for Swift (or your favorite gigantic carrier).