[robertt]

Who is "We"?
President BarackObama said in Turkey: "We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation.We consider ourselves a nation ofcitizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values."
I found this very interesting.
Do you know the Preamble for your state? . .

Be sure to read the message at the bottom!

Alabama 1901, Preamble
We the people of the State of Alabama , invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution..
Alaska 1956, Preamble We, the people of Alaska , grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land.
Arizona 1911, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arizona , grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution...
Arkansas 1874, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arkansas , grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government...
California 1879, Preamble We, the People of the State of California , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom...
Colorado 1876, PreambleWe, the people of Colorado , with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe...
Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy.
Delaware 1897, Preamble Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences...
Florida 1885, Preamble We, the people of the State of Florida , grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty, establish this Constitution...
Georgia 1777, Preamble We, the people of Georgia , relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution...
Hawaii 1959, Preamble We , the people of Hawaii , Grateful for Divine Guidance .... Establish this Constitution.
Idaho 1889, Preamble We, the people of the State of Idaho , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings..
Illinois 1870, Preamble We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil , political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.
Indiana 1851, PreambleWe, the People of the State of Indiana , grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to choose our form of government.
Iowa 1857, Preamble We, the People of the St ate of Iowa , grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings, establish this Constitution.
Kansas 1859, Preamble We, the people of Kansas , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges establish this Constitution.
Kentucky 1891, Preamble... We, the people of the Commonwealth are grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties..
Louisiana 1921, Preamble We, the people of the State of Louisiana , grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy.
Maine 1820, Preamble We the People of Maine acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity .. And imploring His aid and direction.
Maryland 1776, Preamble We, the people of the state of Maryland , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty...
Massachusetts 1780, Preamble We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe In the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly imploring His direction
Michigan 1908, Preamble.. We, the people of the State of Michigan , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom, establish this Constitution.
Minnesota, 1857, Preamble We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings:
Mississippi 1890, Preamble We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.
Missouri 1845, Preamble We, the people of Missouri , with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness . Establish this Constitution...
Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana , grateful to Almighty God for theblessings of liberty establish this Constitution ..
Nebraska 1875, Preamble We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom . Establish this Constitution.
Nevada 1864, Preamble We the people of the State of Nevada , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, establish this Constitution...
New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. VEvery individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience.
New Jersey 1844, Preamble We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.
New Mexico 1911, Preamble We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty..
New York 1846, Preamble We, the people of the State of New York , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings.
North Carolina 1868, Preamble We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those...
North Dakota 1889, Preamble We , the people of North Dakota , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain..
Ohio 1852, Preamble We the people of the state of Ohio , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common.
Oklahoma 1907, Preamble Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty, establish this
Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences
Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble We, the people of Pennsylvania , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance.....
Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing...
South Carolina , 1778, PreambleWe, the people of the State of South Carolina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution.
South Dakota 1889, Preamble We, the people of South Dakota , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties ....
Tennessee 1796, Art. XI..III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience...
Texas 1845, Preamble We the People of the Republic of Texas , acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.
Utah 1896, Preamble Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we establish this Constitution.
Vermont 1777, PreambleWhereas all government ought to enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ..
Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator can be directed only by Reason and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbear
ance, Love and Charity towards each other
Washington 1889, Preamble We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution
West Virginia 1872, Preamble Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God ..
Wisconsin 1848, Preamble We, the people of Wisconsin , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility...
Wyoming 1890, Preamble We, the people of the State of Wyoming , grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties, establish this Constitution..

After reviewing acknowledgments of God from all 50 stateconstitutions, one is faced with the prospectthat maybe,the ACLU and the out-of-controlfederal courts are wrong!If you found this to be 'Food for thought' send to as many as you think will be enlightened as I hope you were.

(Please note that at no time is anyone told that they MUST worship God.)
GOD BLESS AMERICA !

[golfhobo]

I KNEW there was a reason that I LOVE, and the 6 BEST years of my life were spent in, the great and enlightened state of Colorado!

Delaware shows some promise.

But, Virginia REALLY scares me! It certainly doesn't sound constitutional, as I believe it is in conflict with the 1st Ammendment to the Federal Constitution.... which NO state constitution CAN be.

Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI:

Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator can be directed only by Reason and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other.

If I were a Virginian, I would not have an "inalienable right," but rather OWE some DUTY ..... which we ALL "mutually" owe.... to the CHRISTIAN "creator" (NOT using the word GOD) of the CHRISTIAN RELIGION that Virginia's constitution is "establishing!"

On top of that.... they are saying I HAVE to be "nice" to some of the chitheads I've met here on CAD! :lol:

[Of course.... none participating at the moment have earned that "label." ]

Wasn't Virginia like.... the BIGGEST "slave state?" I wonder WHO they thought was the "creator" of the Darkies they WHIPPED to keep working in their cotton or tobacco fields?

ALL this email "LIST" shows to me, is that in the late 18th Century as well as the late 19th century, when states were consolidated and/or admitted to the union, the majority of the RICHER "statesmen," (most of them GRANTED landowners from the King of England,) were simple, GOD fearing "remnants" of years of religious indoctrination and persuasion from the empire.... and the CHURCH of England.

OR.... they were astutely cognizant of the fact that they were attempting to govern a constituency of MOSTLY "believers" who liked to HEAR references to GOD in everything.... and absent any real opposition at the time.... it was politically beneficial to make reference to a religious belief.

YET.... the founders made NO MENTION of "GOD" in our Constitution, and actually made 2 or 3 specific mentions of a "separation" of civil government from religious practice or beliefs.

Private letters, now uncovered, show that most of our founders were "Deists" (though not all,) which meant they believed there was some "unknown" guiding hand in the Universe, but they were mostly against the constrictions of established religions.

But, even if I "GIVE" you the creationist theory, (unless you want to retreat to the ancient Greek and Roman beliefs in MULTIPLE Gods....) you have to say there is ONLY ONE.

And if so.... he is also known by some as Allah, and others as Buddha... and by OUR American Indian ancestors as "the Great Spirit."

Where is the "Christian forbearance, love and charity" that our founders and ancestors have shown THESE people?

AND his creation of HUMANS must include ALL forms ... black or white, male or female. YET, under the U.S. Constitution... they OWE no DUTY to PRACTICE some CHRISTIAN "religion" or charity towards anyone.... or at least ANY of these.

Virginia WAS... and still IS.... totally "wacked!" They just MIGHT be the first state EXPELLED from the Union! :lol:

WHO IS WE???

Who is "We"?
President Barack Obama said in Turkey: "We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation. We consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values."

And he was ABSOLUTELY right!

Our constitution actually forbids us to consider ourselves a Christian nation. THAT would be an "establishment" of a religion. Christians are actually, probably, a minority in the world (though, perhaps a majority in THIS country.)

There are a LOT of Jews in America.... but, we can't claim to be a Jewish nation. (I suppose ISRAEL can do so! ) There are ALSO a lot of Muslims in America. Been here for YEARS before the current "war on terrorism...not Islam."

And there ARE a lot of nations/countries who CAN claim to be "Muslim nations." Some of them, like Jordan and Egypt, are allies of America and/or Israel. We fought a WAR in Yugoslavia to protect the rights and existence of Muslims! :hellno:

But, in America.... we cannot claim to be ANY kind of "religious nation." THAT would be unconstitutional. WE are a country of LAWS, and we are GOVERNED by "laws" ..... NOT religious edicts! THAT is what makes us different from the Taliban!

In THIS country.... you can OPENLY claim to be a believer in GOD. But you can't cut off my hand because you claim that "GOD TOLD YOU TO DO SO!" :eek2:

I am sympathetic with those who ARE strong believers, and how you FEEL that your way of life is being taken from you. But, it is unconstitutional for our government to make decisions BASED on a belief in ANY god, especially as it infringes on the rights of those who DON'T.

As many here know.... I am (I guess) agnostic. Some say I sit on a fence. But, EVEN if I fell over to the "believer" side tomorrow.... I would NOT CHANGE my beliefs and/or argument concerning our constitution and the separation of church and state! (remember... I was brought up in a "religious" family.)

Obama said: we were "bound together by ideals and values." Again, he is in touch.

We share the ideal of freedom OF and FROM religious CONTROL. There is absolutely NO REASON why our LAWS should make ANY reference to some "religious" mandate. ANY citizen (and according to the 14th Ammendment, OTHERS under our jurisdiction) have EQUAL protection under the law.

Our "ideals" are pretty much the same: The "American life," BLIND justice, free markets WITH INTEGRITY.

Our "values" are not so different regardless of our political allegiance: Do unto others.... Love our "neighbor".... play FAIR. [see reference to integrity above.]

"I" am one of WE! I am part of "we the people." My ancestors were not immigrants (though that doesn't matter.) I am a decendent of "granted gentry." One of my ancestors DIED in the Revolutionary War. He is buried in the town I live in today (though that is a coincidence.)

And THIS part of "we the people" doesn't consider this a CHRISTIAN nation! :hellno: ONLY because it is unconstitutional to DO SO!

America is a melting pot of immigrants from ALL nations, religions and cultures. That is the MOTTO of the nation and the Statue of Liberty! Though I agree that SOME have taken that invitation too literally, without regard for our LAWS, The ANSWER to that problem lies WITHIN our "laws," and NOT by some "fatwah" against our constitution.


[[ this post was meant to make people THINK.... and NOT to invoke hatred or reprisal. Those who can't respond without PERSONAL attacks are NOT invited to DO SO! ]]


HOBO