Although I feel much like RH on the matter of terrorists and this "war"....I also see GH's point.

My Dad always told me..."Son, NEVER lower yourself to another persons level".

It's kind of a moral Catch-22.

 

I think that I should point out to you, Golf Hobo that we did not send troops to Afghanistan until AFTER 9/11. That was the reason we went to war in the first place. We were attacked. And I don't know why you continue to call it Bush's war. It was CONGRESS who voted to go to war and fight these radicals. It was CONGRESS who cut off funding to support these troops after they voted to send them in harms way. This congress was DEMOCRATICALLY controlled. I am surprised that you continue to blame Bush when it was the Democrats who participated in moving this war to the heart of terrorism. The democratically controlled congress is not a friend of the military. They sent them to war and cut off their means to fight. If you want to blame anyone for deaths in this war you need to include congress. Actually, perhaps it is time to start blaming the Muslims. They are the ones who started this war. We either kill them or they will destroy this country. Of course, they are receiving plenty of help destroying this country by liberal thinking Americans. We can't even condemn these people without being called radicals ourselves. If these people were Christians this would be a non issue. Liberals attack when they don't have a leg on which to stand. This is now Hussein's war. He better get to winning it or there may not be an America for him to socialize.

 

I've given thought to this moral catch-22. I still see it as confused thinking with a sense of moral superiority, even though that is the agrument made against conservative thinking.

Guantanamo for instance. Liberals battle cry is this is the biggest cause for recruiting to radical Islam. But you can not find one terrorist that says, they joined Jihad because of Guantanamo.

The left leaning camp see's the primary problem with terrorism, comes from our foreign policy. If we would pull our troops out of Iraq and Afganistan, and stop supporting Israel, then the problem would disappear. But America has not been called the "Great Satan" in the Arab world primarily on the basis of foreign policy. They are upset about the importation of western decadence. Christianity is not the religion of intolerance. Just try to visit ANY ARAB Country with a Bible in your suitcase.

Islam is against Islam! There are many radical Muslims who want to keep the dark ages way of belief and Shria law, and have their male dominance. That is one reason why you will NOT hear American Muslims stand up and speak out against radical Islam in this Country. They are afraid for their lives by their own people!.... not us.

Have you thought about the "view" the Islamic world gets of American's? Think about it, they get the LIBERAL view of what they see on television. Sit-coms and dramas that stretch the limits of vulgarity, glorifying premarital and extramarital sex, homosexuality, drunkenness, drug addition, and corruption. You know, I'm just saying, how about some perspective. This narrow but jaundiced view of America, are the very expressions that the left-wingers defend as free speech and civil liberties. We have used the First Amendment as a license to promote. Benjamin Franklin commented; "It wasn't that force from without which would wrest freedom the fledgling nation, but impropriety toward self-government from within that could bring her down."

This is post 9/11 and things have changed. Liberals are always saying that we should be asking why these people are angry with us. When you're in a war, it is detrimental to sit around and play these pyschobabble games. Liberals place themselves in the net of a malignant catch-22. If one believes the attacks of radical Muslims are merely about wrong-headed foreign policy, then one will assume that certain changes will improve, if not expunge, the hostilities altogether. If Islamic militants loathe the perversity of the perceived American lifestyle, what concessions are liberals willing to make in order to keep the peace?

What is so progressive about progressivism? Simply moving in a forward direction? Liberal cultural trends are the evils that put us squarely in the path of future violence. Conservatives wish to destroy only those who take the lives of innocents. We understand the necessity for cultural renovation. We are not clouded by moral superiority, or fervant agenda. Our values have a foundation, which goes back to the formation of this Country, and our Constitution.

Liberals love to accuse us of destroying the Constitution. Sorry, but we do honestly feel we are agruing with IDIOTS. I admit I get angry and frustrated. I fault myself for not standing against this path to destruction sooner. Liberals are going to be the ones left standing in shock. I am so glad my mind has not been confused by the liberal media's long engagement of propaganda. In my opinion this radical liberalism is very insidious.

 

I think that most people know right from wrong in their hearts. There comes a time when each person must decide for himself whether he will stand up for what he knows is right. You either stand up or get run over. The silent majority in this country has been silent for too long. :thumbsup:

 

You know, I usually stay somewhat removed from these kinds of topics, but I find myself wanting to post something this time. So here’s where we are…this isn’t make believe. This is what is coming; this is the reality of this situation that BarryO has put us in.

These “admitted” terrorists are going to be tried in a civilian court and will get to receive all the rights of American Citizens, including being considered innocent until proven guilty. They will be allowed to address the court. They will be allowed the insanity defense. They will be allowed appeals, which will not be needed. They are not American citizens and are not guaranteed our rights, but now they get them…after killing over 3,000 of us in a military attack, unconventional as it was.

I'll repeat this for the short attention span theatre crowd...These are NOT American Citizens! Someone, ANYONE, give me one good reason why they should be given American rights? Just because they killed over 3,000 Americans, does not give them American rights.

These are the same guys that the entire world already knows is responsible for 9-11…the same guys that have admitted of it, have boasted of it, have glorified in it. And you honestly think that Obama’s decision is the right one? Is even the rational one? And this IS his decision, mind you. You talk about Bush owning his presidency. Just wait until Obama owns his because he will do that in spades.

Because here is what is going to happen.

These cockroaches will get their day in civilian court, they will be able to tell the entire world why they did it. They will have their platform to be heard. And then they will be found innocent by reason of insanity, PROVIDING the whole thing isn’t simply declared a mistrial due to your president and his attorney general goon coming out and saying they know these scumbags will be found guilty and executed. Heck, I would not at all be surprised to see their lawyers claim that they cannot get a fair trial anywhere in the United States and will therefore be tried in some world court elsewhere!

Civilian court rules here, people. If you were on trial for something/anything and the judge, the prosecuting attorney, and the mayor of your town went on record saying they knew you were going to be found guilty before the trial even started, you’d have a hundred different lawyers ready to step up and successfully argue your freedom. These guys will have thousands. What a feather in their lawyer’s cap, eh? That conversation would go something like this:

“Yeah, I successfully defended a bunch of terrorists that killed over 3,000 Americans and got them off on a technicality.”

“Welcome to the firm, PARTNER!”

This is the reality of this whole thing and if it were not so downright ludicrous, ridiculous, and flat-out disgusting, it would be hysterically funny. It’s the Keystone Cops on a world stage!

In the end, the terrorists win. One of these outcomes will happen and everybody already knows it. They know it, their lawyers know it, and your president certainly knows it. The trial is going to be an absolute circus and a farce and you are utterly clueless to if you believe otherwise.

And when that happens, this country will finally and completely fracture. There will be riots, there will be killings, there will be all matter of retribution, both ways. If you think the simmering anger is scary right now, wait until these guys that killed over 3,000 of YOUR fellow Americans, are found innocent or simply released. If you think that the majority of this country (and I include a whole lot of even-minded liberals here), with that level of anger, bitterness, grief, and frustration in them, is going to simply take it in stride when that innocent verdict is handed down or these scumbags are freed on a technicality, you are not living in reality. That verdict will bring out a thousand Timothy McVeighs and then a thousand more Osama Bin Ladens and that will be after the nationwide riots. That verdict will pit most completely, the Muslim world against the rest of the world, Christian and non-Christian alike.

Now, you can bury your head in the sand and pretend that I’m full of crap, that we live in an enlightened society, and I’ll simply tell you to open your eyes. We live in a rabidly hateful and depraved society...a society where 9-11 happens and we give more consideration to the rights of the killers than the men, women and children that died or lost mothers, fathers, children, friends, relatives, etc. That's the society we live in and this is what is going to happen, like it or not. And when it does, what do you think your president is going to do then? And he is your president. He stopped being mine (and millions and millions of others) when he stopped being President of the UNITED STATES and started work on becoming President of the World.

 

sad but true, this is a sad state of affairs.:hellno:

 

I'm just out here reading. I know this country is going there in a hand basket, mabe even a dixie cup. I just don't know whats going to happen. Are we going to contiue to let this happen or are we going to take action and get these ppl out of office. I don't get it, we take our time to decide weather to send more troops in but they try and pass a health-care bill before we can even fully comprehend the effects this bill will have. At least with bush we always knew where he stood, this guy I never know from one day to the next.

 

This is new? The presumption of innocence is a fundamental right in a democracy.

hateful of? Liberals? Muslims? or injustice?

 

Putting these people on trial will only give them a public forum. That is exactly what they want. I agree with TF. These are not American citizens and should not be accorded the rights of an American citizen. Perhaps we should use the so called justice sytem in their country. Have a trial, behead them. Simple. And it saves the taxpayers millions in court costs and legal fees. And make no mistake about it. The American taxpayer will pick up the tab for this circus. I would not be surprised if we started seeing more violence agains Muslims and U.S. citizens.

 

i was thinking the same thing. they won't be get fair trial anywhere in the US. maybe the judge should find them innocent and then tell them they are free to go into the streets of new york and see what happens. :lol:

have people considered the feelings of the families of the victims and the people who had to live through that day? or is it about the rights of the terrorists, first? it makes me angry that their rights are being put in front of the victims. i went to the site about a month after it happened. i saw what they did and i saw the black drapings on all the firehouses around there. it angers me that they are doing this but this is our president. :banghead: