Most of them won't even admit voting for Obama. My wife has a good friend who is a liberal and voted for him. She regrets having done so. It is not the change she expected. Some of them will go along with his agenda because they don't want to admit they were wrong. Some will go along because they still think that the democrats will soak the rich and give them a lot of freebies.

 

I can see that. They probably don't 'talk about it' much. :lol:

 

TimberWolf,

The point is not if it will be enforced or not but the FACT that it is there. Hobo wants to spout off that it is a lie and I called him on it. Does it not concern you that the people that has so much control over the direction of this country ( not to mention our lives ) would include such a thing that could become law? I think that that just shows that this bill is not just about controlling health care costs but controlling people. These people think they have the right to control other peoples behavior, at the point of a gun if necessary, to achieve their goals. That Sir is the problem.

Just so you know, I'm not just talking about the liberals here. Both parties are guilty of it. It just seems that those in power now are moving at a greater pace than ever before. In the end that may be a good thing because it has caused many to wake up and start to see what is really going on in this country. It is going to take the average person getting involved and making their voice heard to put a stop to what has been happening to this country over the last several years.

 

For years citizens have become more apathetic about politics. If this doesn't accomplish anything else, it may very well push some of them to get involved and see what is really going on in this country. I agree, Ridge, this is about control and power. Both parties are guilty. I still can't believe that no member of either party read a 2,000 page bill that is the largest spending bill in history. Since these bills are written by lawyers I would love to know the actual cost that we taxpayers paid them to just write this bill. And I am not talking about staff attorneys. These are lawyers from law firms in Washington. For those who don't know, congressmen and senators don't write the bills with their names on them or that they sponsor. It is written by lawyers that are paid from public funds. These lawyers are paid hundreds of dollars per hour. They are basically picking our pockets and we are sending them a check to do it. We send lawyers to represent us who hire their buddies to write bills that they sponsor. Every one of these representatives should be sent packing at the next election. And I mean from both parties. The fact that they voted for a massive spending bill that they never read tells me that they are not doing the job that we sent them to do. They also voted to give themselves a big pay raise and retirement during a time of great economic hardship for the entire country. I suggest we all write, email and call our representatives to tell them how we feel. The only way they will change their ways is if they hear from us and know that they we will take away their power. You see, power is what these people crave most. If we take that away from them or at least show them that we will take it away from them, they may start to change their ways. I make a point of staying in touch with my representatives. They know how I feel about what is going on and that I am watching them. They need to know that more of us are keeping an eye on what they do. And I am not talking about just one party. If enough people make enough noise, it will make a difference.

 

Your posts inevitably end up being classic examples demonstrating why Dhimmicrat politicians can lie and prevaricate openly with a wink and a smile and get away with it with impunity. Indeed, your posts illustrate why Dhimmicrats in Congress can say we want to help poor people with a perfectly straight face or why they can claim their bill is healthcare reform with a perfectly straight face, which otherwise makes the rest of all gag, but unfortunately makes you and your ilk cheer in total oblivion.

Nevertheless, people would be means tested and if they have the means to acquire healthcare insurance, per the government’s means test, but still refuse to do so, then they would be fined and indeed ultimately put in jail if they continue to refuse.

In any event, any program that contains a government option, which in the long run will be used to put America’s private health insurance industry out of business, and at the same time doesn’t enable insurance companies to compete across state lines and also doesn’t feature as a major component of the bill healthcare tort reform isn’t reform at all. Instead, it’s a Trojan horse masquerading as healthcare reform when all it really is, is another deceptive attempt by the Dhimmicrats to turn the USA into a Marxist/Socialist state.

Dhimmicrats aren’t interested in reforming healthcare to make it better and more affordable or to help poor people, they are only interested in turning American into a Marxist/Socialist state like the Euros, and despite the fact that the Euros have been moving in the direct opposite direction for more than 10 years.

 

First: I don't listen to Air America. Just another "generalization" made by those on your side of this debate. In fact, I watch Fox more often than I do CNN, and I haven't even heard O'Reilly talk about this.... hence my assumption that it was probably the red meat of some Conservative BLOG.

Second: I will be duly impressed when you assure me that YOU have read the entire bill.... when there really IS ONE... :roll:

Third: The HOUSE version of the bill is NOT the final bill. And it certainly isn't a word for word description of "Obama's PLAN" as GMAN incorrectly stated. Perhaps if he'd correctly attributed it to the HOUSE BILL, (and not omitted the ACTUAL legal remedy) I would have responded differently.

NOW..... let's get to the meat of it. Here is what OBAMA actually has said about the issue:

Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance? - Political Punch

.... and this excerpt puts it all into perspective:

Under the House bill those who can afford to buy insurance and don’t’ pay a fine. If the[y] refuse to pay that fine there’s a threat – as with a lot of tax fines – of jail time. The Senate removed that provision in the Senate Finance Committee.

Ridge said:

No.... the POINT is that the legal remedy for not buying insurance is a FINE. Not paying ANY FINE or TAX to the government can, and always HAS, resulted in jail time.... or at least the THREAT of it.

Furthermore, the POINT is that GMAN made an irresponsible statement blaming the President for a policy / law that has NOT YET been enacted, cannot be proved to be part of HIS "plan," and in general was meant to be inflammatory, and a "scare tactic" used by Conservative bloggers to fire up their "base" of people LIKE HIM who choose NOT to "think for themselves!" GMAN has a HISTORY of repeating such "emails and blogs" and therefore ANY statement he makes has become "suspect" to me. And "I" will "call him on it" whenever I feel it is necessary. You would not BELIEVE the amount of bullchit I let go without challenge on this board!

You mean like they did with the Income Tax laws? Are you not threatened with jail time for refusing to pay your taxes?

What would happen to you if you refused to pay property taxes? Probably BOTH jail time AND loss of your property.

I wonder how all THESE laws got passed?

Jackrabbit said:

We DON'T. We just have a bunch of gullible people who want to BELIEVE he would so they can ACCUSE him of things they THINK he might do. The fact that you don't "believe" it, means you must be one of the smart ones!

Now, Ridge.... put your tinfoil hat on and grab your ray gun. It's YOUR turn to guard the neighborhood against the "coming Russians" and the "falling sky." :lol:

 

Good Morning Ridge & Gman,
I can understand your points about having the wording, Just by fact that it is written in the bill is indeed concerning, however; as you both and I have stated both parties are guilty, both parties do not pay attention to the masses even though they say they do, most of us know better then that.
My point is it really does not matter because thay are going to do what they want, when they want, unfortunaltely I do not see where as my word or the word of thousands more people will change anything. They say they are making the choices they do because "this is what the majority wants" The issue I see with this situation is that for everyone that says yea there will be one that says nay
(tit for tat for the most part) and nothing gets solved, what ends up happening is politicians spend hours pointing fingers and calling each other names and acting like children, in the end the bills get tossed or passed and there will always be someone who is angry about it. That has become the American way and I personally think it is sad. We live in the best country on the planet and our system is far from perfect but it far out weighs many others, with all the infighting in our government I have just decided to shut down to all external BS. I find it works for me, even though I do like to spout some of my views on this board as it helps keep me a little attached to the outside world.


Timberwolf

 

First time the Goverment TRIES to throw someone in jail for not buying insurance the ENTIRE BILL WILL BE CHALLANGED IN COURT. Guess what will be thrown out as Unconsitutinal for that one and other things that are in it.

 

I would like to see both parties just do what is right. Not for themselves, not for their party and not for the ones who line their pockets. Just do what is right for the country because it is right. The constitution is pretty simple to read and understand. If both parties followed the constitution then things would be much simpler and our country would not be in the situation we are now facing. If we take away the retirement benefits and limit the term of office these people can hold we would see a much different outcome. I also think that if we limited voting to property owners we would have more responsible voting and a better group representing the interests of our country. There are too many people who receive a check from the government. Those who rely on the government are going to vote for those who promise to give them a bigger check or more benefits.

Many in government are required to retire at 59 1/2 years of age. They don't contribute to social security. Salaries for many government workers exceed those in the private sector. No government worker should be able to receive any retirement benefits that is paid for by the taxpayers until the reach the retirement age to do so with social security. That in itself would save taxpayers billions of dollars. Unions should not be allowed to recruit government workers. Salaries should be set as before without unions being involved. In fact, I would prefer that salaries of government workers be at least 10% less than a comparable job in the private sector. That would encourage people to get off the government payroll. And NO elected representative should have a government paid retirement.

 

Once again for those on the short bus.... You don't get thrown in jail for NOT BUYING insurance. You MIGHT get thrown in jail (or just threatened with it) for NOT PAYING THE FINE imposed for not buying insurance.

ONE of the many failings of the "proposed" bill as it has been decimated by the Republicans and the Conservative (traitorous) Dems.... is that the fine is NOT ENOUGH to keep some young people making good money from "opting out" and taking their chances with, or paying the fines.

IronEagle, what would happen to you if you refused to buy Auto liability insurance? Would they throw you in jail? More likely, they would revoke your "privilege" to drive. How about.... if you refuse to buy insurance, or pay your fine to defray the cost of others LIKE YOU.... when you get hurt and go to the emergency room, we just turn you out and let you die in the street? Is THAT okay with you? :hellno:

Did the whole "liabitlity insurance" bill get thrown out of court the first time someone was jailed for not having auto insurance and/or paying restitution for the damage he caused?

What does the Constitution say about the legality of requiring all citizens who drive a car to have insurance? Why can't we just trust everyone to be "self-insured?" To have enough money to pay for the damage they cause to others and/or society?

Oh, oh.... wait... I just thought of this! How do you feel about having to PAY for "uninsured motorist" coverage on your auto policy?? :eek2:

Heck, I think you should REFUSE to pay it! March on Washington! Cling to your gun and Bible and whine about it not being delineated in the Constitution!

The sad fact is that all of you who are crying about a mandate for buying insurance, are already PAYING for those who won't/don't buy it.... and if YOU don't continue to pay for THEM.... YOU could be thrown in jail! :lol2::rofl:

This is just TOO funny! :hellno: