Originally Posted by golfhobo

This was in response to the REV correctly questioning the figure of 1.7 million people CLAIMED to have been there by that fakir Glenn Beck. The guy who "sponsored" this rally.... but, didn't SHOW at it!

I was passing along what a friend of mine told me. I never thought it would have become such an issue. I did look into some of the reports. They are pretty wide ranging. Some have put the figure at over 2 million while others have reported somewhere around 10,000. Dice said on the OODIA forum that he was there and that there were over 2 million people present. Since I wasn't there myself, I have no idea. In fact, I don't see how anyone could possibly know how many people were there unless they had the means to physically count them. Below is a link for a report from C-Span concerning the march. It sure seems like a lot of people to me.

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/2009/09/12/HP/A/23055/FreedomWorks+Rally+in+DC.aspx





He was on FOX NEWS morning show, where even the conservative idiots who pretend to RUN the morning show, tried to back him out of his claim. But, he persisted.... claiming some "University of I don't remember the name" had done some photo analysis and come up with that number!

I heard something about this software that was supposed to be able to accurately count the number of people in a crowd. I think it was the University of Indiana who developed it, but I am not certain. I believe they use some sort or face recognition software to count the number of people in a crowd. That is about all that I recall about it.



The PROBLEM here, GMAN..... is that YOU believe it without checking the facts! There were MORE people on the "mall" during the "Million Man March." There were 3 TIMES as many people there for both the Clinton and Obama innaugurations!

I had no reason to doubt the numbers since those were the only ones that I had heard at that point.


The crowd was properly estimated by those who do this for a living.... at about 70,000 people. To exagerate that by a factor of TEN... would only be 700,000 people! And to DOUBLE that fantastical exageration would ONLY get you 1.4 Million.... which is 300,000 people SHORT of the claimed 1.7 Million!

That's a "margin of error" of more than FOUR TIMES the actual number of people who attended.... JUST to make up the difference in a 200% error in counting a fictictious exageration of a factor of TEN!! :hellno:

If you believe these pictures then you will have to admit that either there are more than 70,000 people there or Obama and others exaggerated their numbers since it seems to me as though there were as many or perhaps more people at this rally than at Obama's inauguration or Clinton's. And I seem to remember something about the park service, who takes care of the Washington Mall, as being sued by the Million Man March people because they estimated attendance at well below 1 million men. Frankly, I don't really care. It is arguing semantics. In the case of the recent rally by American citizens, the fact that we had such an obviously high turnout (see photos) is enough for me. Regardless of the number of people there was a significant turnout. And I am not going to spend time searching for the document where I read it.


Put another way.... about 4% of the CLAIMED number of people showed up! [70k is about 4% of 1.7M ]

You are making an unproven assumption unless you were there personally and counted every one in attendance.

That puts EVERYTHING you hear on FOXNews within the 4% "margin of error" and therefore..... quite possibly worthy of being IGNORED!

YOU said something in an earlier post about how you "care" when Obama (or any President) LIES! The ONLY "proof" you can offer that he ever HAS 'lied" is based on what you hear on (apparently) the ONLY source you listen to for news! And based on the numbers I just gave you.... standing by your statements... and their sources... is the EPITOMY of "hypocrisy!"

Actually, Obama did lie about wanting to cover illegals in his initial health bill. The congressman from South Carolina called him on it. More representatives should call these presidents when they lie, regardless of party. The only problem is that he broke protocol and some people felt that he disrespected the office of the president. I receive updates on some of the bills that come up and other items. That is where I read it. If I had known it would be such a subject of debate I would have kept it. I believe congress censured him over his behavior. What a waste of taxpayer money. While I don't think that he should necessarily have said what he did at the time, he did tell the truth. And he is not the only representative who has made similar statements. We shall see if it makes it in the final bill.


I've SAID that I respect you, GMAN. And I want to believe that you are intelligent and educated. I can SEE that you are a common man with common sense.... and I APPRECIATE that. But, you are not giving me much to believe in lately! [I once intended a major in International Business Administration, too. I had dreams of "capitalizing" on my interest and understanding of world cultures. I studied them, and LIVED amongst them. At one time, I spoke 4 languages conversationaly.]

Sorry, golfhobo, it isn't up to me to provide you with something in which to believe. I don't think any of us can get too much education as long as you have common sense. I hope that I never stop learning. I am sure you would pick up those languages if you started using them.

Some here have "labeled" me as a Liberal. They are wrong and I think MOST of them KNOW it. I am a "Centrist." I love to watch MSNBC because they expose the lies and foibles of the Conservatives who spend their time being "praised" by the ideologues on FOXNews. I ALSO enjoy many programs on FOXNews.... because they present the other side of the story...and I WANT to hear both sides of the story! I STILL believe CNN is the most "centrist" of the "big 3," but I am not so stupid that I don't see that they are somewhat biased towards Democrats (not so much LIBERALS.)

But, I have a pretty well educated, intrinsically intelligent, mind of my own. And I know B.S. when I hear it! And.... FOX is FULL OF IT! :lol:

While I think most of your posts tend to be to the left, I do respect you for standing by your values. My wife has a very good friend who is very much a liberal, but even she has become disillusioned with Obama and the democrats. CNN seems to have moved more back toward the center from the far left. I think FOX was eating their lunch and they decided that they were going to lose their audience if they didn't become more objective in their reporting. MSNBC has been known for some time as being far left in their reporting. I think FOX is more balanced, but that is my opinion.


I don't claim that Obama is the Messiah. I have serious doubts that he can effect the "change" he promised. I don't even AGREE with some of his policies (energy is highest on my list.) But, having HEARD and studied all sides to the story.... I absolutely REJECT and DESPISE the unproductive CRAP that most on "your" side are spewing, and the "obstructionist" measures they are taking, to DENY him a chance to make his mark on American history and policy!

Frankly, I am tired of the liberals personally attacking conservatives when they disagree with them. They seem to attack them personally as well as their families (i.e.-Palin) rather than their policies or ideals. To be honest, I have problems with BOTH parties. I have MORE of a problem with the liberals. Liberals are way out of touch with the American people. You don't have to worry about Obama making his mark on history. He has already accomplished that goal. I believe it was John McCain who stated in a recent interview that Obama may very well be known as the worst president in our history. In any case, he and his democratic congress seem hell bent on destroying this country with their fiscal irresponsibility.


And... IF it is not "intentional," then I PITY you and your side for being SO gullible and STOOPID as to believe all the crap you are being spoon-fed and are regurgitating!

I had THREE basic problems with Dubya:

(1) his legitimate election. (both of 'em.)
(2) his motivation and "generalship" of the war he declared on Terror.
(3) his pandering to the richest class at the expense of the middle class of America.

I have a few problems with GW myself, but he is no longer president so those concerns are no longer valid. George Bush was legitimately elected based upon our constitution and according to the U.S. Supreme Court. It is time for you liberals to GET OVER IT. He was president, served both terms and is now retired. Keep in mind that GW actually took action when we were attacked. Whether you like him or not, you should give him credit for keeping our country safe under his watch. Neither Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton did anything when our people and country were attacked under their watch. Had both of them been more aggressive in their response to previous attacks, 9/11 might NOT have happened. As to pandering, the liberals have been pandering to minorities and the lower classes for decades. I don't know that George Bush pandered to the rich. One thing that I have noticed on both sides of the political spectrum is that we tend to blame the president for everything. We forget that it is congress that controls the purse strings. It doesn't matter what any president wants to do, if congress cuts the purse strings he cannot accomplish his goals. Congress can and so far has stopped this healthcare overhaul. He cannot take over our healthcare system without the approval of congress. It was the same with GW. I still remember when congress cut off funds for the war effort after they voted to put our troops in harms way. I still wonder how many of our people died due to their incompetence and grand standing. If you remember families and friends of some of our fighting people sent money and armor to troops because congress refused to protect them.


He was a "likable" guy. Somewhat in the vein of Reagan. I like "cowboys" and I like people who are committed to their beliefs. I believe he was a "first class" PATRIOT! Though I would, and DO, accuse him of selling out to the RICHEST class.... I would NEVER accuse him of being a Fascist, a Nazi, or the Anti-Christ.

I don't recall calling Obama a Nazi or the Anti Christ. I did say something about him following the policies of the Nazi's prior to WWII. Regardless of which label you put on him, his policies and ideas are disturbing to a free thinking society. And I believe he came from the wrong part of the world to be the Anti-Christ. I know some have referred to him as the Messiah and the Anti-Christ. I believe that I have referred to him as the Messiah in jest, but am only repeating what I have heard through some in the media. I believe he was first called the Messiah by the liberals. It seems that it is OK for liberals to call conservatives names or place labels on them, but they don't want the same to be reciprocated by conservatives.


I COULD have many debates here on HIS policies, motivations, effectiveness.... and how both Americans AND foreign nations and their leaders have had diminished views of America under his leadership, but there is no POINT as long as the majority here insist on remaining CLUELESS!

Feel free to debate anytime you want, but I don't see why you would want to do so with a president who has been out of office for almost a year.



But, it is time to move on. The American people have spoken and elected Obama in a FAIR ELECTION! So far....he has continued MORE of Bush's policies than he has instituted his own! So... WHAT are you afraid of?

If you are asking me what I am afraid of? Nothing that I can think of. As far as a fair election of Obama is concerned, the new revelations of criminal activity of Acorn and Obama's close ties to them could spur some interesting debate as to whether he was legally or legitimately elected. Remember, there was a record turnout of the dead in Chicago. And don't forget that some people in a couple of states enjoyed voting so much that they did it twice. I am not saying that Obama wasn't legally elected, but it could initiate some interesting debate.


Nevermind.... that was a rhetorical question. I know EXACTLY what you are afraid of... and I know the SOURCE of your fear! And until you rise ABOVE your "institutionalized" fears based on racism, bigotry, and "class ideology," you CANNOT be "reasoned with" (as I said before,) and any attempt at conversation or "debate" is futile.

I have no idea why you would think that I was racist. It is the liberals who tend to bring up racism and use it to drive a wedge between whites and blacks. Without race as an issue, they would lose much of their power. It does get tiresome for the liberals to throw out race as the reason you may disagree with someone who is black. Democrats have called those who disagree with Obama or some of his policies racist in an effort to deflect attention away from the real issue. Liberals also like to pit one class against another. They do it for the same reason they use race, power. I have a problem with Obama's policies and ideals, not his race. I think Obama has a problem with race. He never seems to talk about the white side of the family.

Originally Posted by Dejanh

Yes i am talking about those meetings..

I don't necessarily have a problem with her having attended meetings concerning secession from the union. As the governor of the largest state in the union, it might actually be good for her to be there.


He would be done and over with if he was in a similar situation like she is..
Last time i checked she is giving speeches left and right and has a support base who still want her to be a president or active in political life...

Originally Posted by GMAN

Dice said on the OODIA forum

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

Dice is a wacko nutjob. If that's your source, then you've lost already.

I didn't realize there was a competition going on. Dice said that he was there. Who knows, perhaps it sat around and counted everyone who attended. :thumbsup:I would say that you could believe his number as well as any of the others. No two seem to agree on how many were there. If you look at the video the mall is packed. Regardless of how many people were there a lot of concerned citizens attended. Just pick a number you like, cite your source and stick with it. The only way to really dispute any of the numbers is to have been there and counted them for yourself. All any of them have done is make estimates. I suppose that if you don't support the protest you choose the low number. If you support their efforts, you choose the highest number.

Factcheck.org has already disproven that claim a long time ago. Would it surprise you to find out that the Congressman from South Carolina voted in favor of a bill reimburse hospitals for providing health care coverage to illegals? That makes him a hypocrite.

Originally Posted by GMAN

[B]If I am going to check something out I would rather go directly to the source. When you rely on a third party source for your checking you don't really know if they have done a thorough job or not. Who checks the checker?

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

Dice is a wacko nutjob. If that's your source, then you've lost already.



Factcheck.org has already disproven that claim a long time ago. Would it surprise you to find out that the Congressman from South Carolina voted in favor of a bill reimburse hospitals for providing health care coverage to illegals? That makes him a hypocrite.

Originally Posted by mommee

technically, no hospital is suppose to treat illegals. they are not here lawfully and should not have access to anything provided by thing country. but they do. obama says that they aren't part of the health care bill, but we will continue to treat them in the ER for whatever ails them.

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

Hospitals have a legal obligation to treat anyone who seeks medical attention, regardless of age, sex, race, citizenship, insurance coverage, or ability to pay. There is no way around that. It is a fact of life, and it isn't going to change. This isn't something new. It's always been this way. And we'll continue to treat them regardless of whether Obama's health care bill gets passed or not.

Originally Posted by mommee

now if they were tourists and got sick, the hospital can't turn them away. if they are immigrants, they can't be turned away because they have their papers, green card. hospitals assume that everyone who walks into their doors are here legally and they know that they aren't. and when you walk into the ER, you sign forms that state all in the info you provide is accurate and that you have the means to pay. as illegals, there is no documentation of them entering this country, and they can't show their citizenship.

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

As I already said, proof of citizenship is not, nor has it ever been, a requirement for receiving health care in this country.

This is really a sad, sad discussion. Imagine if you were one of the uninsured in this country, and you needed to get health care, but you knew you couldn't afford it. Then to make matters worse, you had people screaming and hollering that you didn't deserve health care. It might make you think twice about going to the hospital, when the hospital is right where you should be.

I can only hope you never go without insurance and have to deal with that dilemma, and that your kids never have to suffer that fate.

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

Hospitals have a legal obligation to treat anyone who seeks medical attention, regardless of age, sex, race, citizenship, insurance coverage, or ability to pay