You already are, and have been ever since your family came to this country.

It's a sad discussion when something as trivial as what is spent on health care for illegal immigrants overshadows the real problem - that our health care system is broken, and needs to be fixed.

The fact of the matter is, illegal immigrants won't be getting any extra health care benefits under the Obama plan. They never were. That has been documented and proven already. Time to stop waving that flag. If you want to discuss illegal immigration, that's another story altogether. We can start by discussing the $800 billion they pump into the economy every year (as of 2005). Are you ready for that kind of a decline in our economy? Nearly a trillion dollars, suddenly gone? Then we can talk about the fact that most illegal immigrants are working for less than minimum wage, and when you kick them out, the prices are going to increase as a result (Illegals earn 20% less on average, as of 2005). Then people like GMAN can complain that the prices he already thinks are too high have jumped 20%, and he'll buy more foreign goods, thereby furthering the trade deficit that we already have.

Illegal immigration is the red headed stepchild that we live with because we choose to live with it. We don't want the consequences of not doing so. Why you think this is some personal attack against your family is beyond me. I'm glad your family came here, and I'm glad they became citizens. I wish all illegal immigrants would become citizens, even if it means a 20% increase in the cost of goods. But complaining about a problem that has always been here as if it is some new thing is not the answer.

 

the fact is that nobody wants to do the menial jobs that they do. why not clean an office for a living? honest money. the discussion wasn't about the money spent on their care, but that they get it all. i am talking about the law. again, citizenship means you can prove you are from some where. they can't even prove that they are from mexico or guatemala because they don't have those documents. you stated they had to be treated regardless of their citizenship. the definition of a citizen:

noun
a legally recognized subject or national of a state or commonwealth, either native or naturalized

as for illegals not getting any health benefits, on paper, it is stated that they won't but it hasn't been proven let. when legislation is passed and carried out, then they will have to prove that they aren't getting anything. you can't prove something that hasn't come into being yet.

i never took it as an attack on my family, personally. i didn't become a citizen automatically when my family came here. we were immgrants, then my parents waited the 7 or 8 years before they could apply for citizenship. only then, did we become citizens. but it is a bone of contention when so many others had to go through the legal process to get here. and many more are waiting in line to get here legally. it doesn't say much for them. the wait is measured in years at this point. it's not just 1 or 2, the waiting period for my aunt was 8 years and that was about 20 years ago. this was after my mother petitioned for her parents to get here as immigrants, which took about 8 years also. they, in turn petitioned my aunt. that's a lot of time spent waiting. we wanted to be citizens, not illegals.

 

So you are in favor of these people doing the jobs nobody else wants to do, but if they get sick and need hospital care, then tough crap? Wow.:hellno:

Now I'd love for you to explain how someone proves they aren't getting something. Please. I'm really curious.



But there are others who just want to come here to earn money doing the work that most Americans don't want to do. Just like you, these people get sick. So you want to benefit from their work, but you don't want to extend any benefits to them for doing so? What ever happened to compassion?

Plain and simple, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you don't want these people here doing the work they do, and are willing to take the massive economic hit that will come as a result, or you want them to be here doing the work you don't want to do, and will be forced to care for them like a citizen of this country as a result. You can't have it both ways.

 

you wrote that, not me. can you prove that they aren't? after legislation has passed, let's see.

i gave you the definition of citizen. should i repeat? you wrote what the law states. so i am clarifying.

lots of americans think that some jobs are beneath them. i cleaned houses when i was in college. my parents cleaned offices to supplement the income of their full time jobs. why do some people think jobs are beneath them? everyone jokes about working at mcdonald's or walmart, why? it's honest work, honest money. it's because they think it's beneath them. i guess it's easier to be on welfare. when did we become so lazy? so you are justifying them being here because they do work that nobody wants.

we aren't talking about compassion. we are talking about the law. if you want to talk about compassion, what about those people who are waiting 8-10 years to get an interview to try to get to this country? any for them, like making the wait shorter or the process easier?

 

I can prove they aren't, because the legislation specifically says that benefits will not be extended to illegals. It's right in there. But you're saying that isn't good enough, so I'd love for you to show me how you expect this to be proven otherwise.

You are taking what I'm saying out of context. I said that whether one is a citizen does not determine whether they can receive health care in this country. You said illegals weren't supposed to get health care. This is untrue. NOBODY can be turned away. This is the way it has always been.

They do.

Well, you've picked your side. Kick the illegals out. Watch the economy suffer a trillion dollar collapse. Watch prices skyrocket. Enjoy.

 

I have no idea how well factcheck.org checks their facts. I think that if you want to find out the truth you need to go to the source. Just because both sides cite them doesn't necessarily mean that they are accurate or thorough. All it means is that they are convenient and may support someones point of view. If you want to disprove something then you can present the original document. Acorn was also presented as being honest. We are finding out that they are corrupt.

 

i didn't write that was 'it was documented and proven already'. it has proved nothing excepted that it was documented that illegals have no extra benefits in the new healthcare legislation. unless that is what you are trying to say.




and now i took things out of context. ok. and because illegal aliens do the work no one wants to do, it justifies them being here. and no compassion for those who have been waiting for years to get there chance to enter this country by legal means with all their papers in a row.

i have picked my side. and in the eyes of some it makes me an uncompassionate, racist bastard. and i am totally ok with that because i am not afraid of being called those things. :bigthumbsup:

 

So if Obama says something, it must be true, right? After all, he's the source. Or perhaps one would wisely use fact checkers to verify the statements that the "source" says to see if they are true.

So when are you planning to start doing this? Or is this just a suggestion for others?

That's exactly what I'm saying. The legislation has specific wording in it that says no benefits contained within the legislation will be extended to illegals. Now if you can prove that this isn't true, go right ahead. Everything beyond that is wild speculation at this point, as the legislation hasn't even passed yet.

You're comparing two different things entirely. Illegals being here is something that we live with, because we choose to. We like the lower prices that their work affords us, we like the almost $1 trillion that they pump into our economy each year, and we take advantage of those things on a daily basis. That doesn't make it right, but it is reality. Again, if you don't want illegals here, that's fine. But there are consequences to that position. Are you willing to live with those?

 

YES, I AM. they may pump $1 trillion back into the economy, but they still don't pay taxes on their earnings like you do. many have obtained SS cards illegally and put a strain on our social services. your tax dollars pay for public schools, so we educate them for free. and the fact is they are breaking the law. so many people are desperately waiting to get into this country, why not let them in? they can work just as hard and they will pay taxes. most will take minimum wage because they would be so grateful for a job. they would use it as a stepping stone for the next job.

 

That's not to say they don't pay taxes though.

So who is going to do the below minimum wage jobs? It's pretty clear that nobody wants them other than the illegals. And how do you propose fixing the $1 Trillion shortfall? Assuming legal immigrants are going to do these jobs is lofty at best. They don't do them now. Why would they suddenly start?