LMAO Hobo.........that was definitely a good one!:bow:

 

AMEN:clap::clap:

 

Global Economics... U.S.A. labor is/was over priced and it is cost effective to produce outside the U.S.A. and pay to import it. The big three are basically just assembly plants anymore with parts being made by others.

Michigan's economy is the worst off in the nation because Michigan relied heavily on the US manufacturing of vehicles, not just the assembly. Michigan also has the highest unemployment rate in the nation. We have to get out of the automotive manufacturing mentality and find other means for a productive economy.

I have a hard time entertaining a government bailout for an industry that just isn't prosperous for the US anymore. Maybe the money would be better spent on something that would utilize the resources we have such as technology that would provide a better return in the global economy.

 

www.thefordstory.com

Well it looks like ford is doing the best out of the 3 with out a problem.

What do you all think about the CEOs of GM and Ford if they use the bailout money they will pay them selfs 1 dollar a year???

 

When I look at the entire "Corporate" picture that has become America, I sometimes think that OUR SURVIVAL is not desired. Look at the numbers of companies that operate in this country, but take the profits from their operations overseas. You have Germany, Holland, England, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, France, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand, Venezuela, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Japan, South Korea, Canada, Mexico, Belgium, India and Italy...ALL with operations in the USA that take non-taxed profits out of the country.

The rush of cash out of the country, was bad under Clinton, most people feel, yet just about everyone has looked the other way the last eight years, as the cash out-flow has doubled and even tripled under Bush.

The "BIG 3" are American owned (now that Daimler has dropped Chrysler). Do we let those companies disappear into the void and move on? If we do, then more of our money will be leaving the country as it makes its way to Japan, South Korea, Italy, Sweden, India and Germany. Those are the countries whom will keep their automotive industries solvent, regardless of the cost. Their automotive industries will move into the former digs of the "Big 3", build (assemble) cars and pickups here, and take the non-taxed profits home.

The "American" auto worker(Big 3) is over paid(as are the majority of oil & chemical workers). Plain and simple. Do you think the employees at the Mercedes plant in Tuscaloosa AL, the BMW plant in North Carolina, the Nissan plant in Canton MS, the Honda or Subaru plants in Indiana, the Toyota plants in Kentucky or Texas, the Hyundai plant in Montgomery AL, make the same wages as any of the "Big 3" employees? Well...most of the "Import" employees probably make as much as the janitors at GM make...but I doubt it. Instead of making $19 to $28 per hour, the vast majority of Big 3 workers, are making in the $29 to $39 per hour range, which is just wrong.

People worry about the profits that ExxonMobil makes. What about the untaxed profits that BP(oil & chemical), Shell(oil & chemical), Total(oil & chemical), BHP-Billiton(oil and steel), BASF(chemicals & pharmaceuticals), CITGO(oil & chemicals), Saudi-Aramco(oil & chemicals), Bayer(chemicals & pharmaceuticals). The list can go on. Those companies I listed though, account for TENS OF BILLIONS of american dollars that leave this country each and every business quarter. Add in the food profits that go overseas, the automobile profits that go overseas, and lets not forget the machinery. Hyundai takes a huge profit out each year, not just in automobile sales, but in semi-trailer sales, and (their big $$$) from railroad equipment and overseas shipping.

Don't you just love "Globalization"?? :hellno::hellno::hellno:

Yes...the banks are responsible for a large portion of the current crisis, but OIL is what killed the economy. Had investors not gotten greedy, it is entirely possible that we would not be in as dire straits as we are in. The absolute best news, has been that the financial crisis IS GLOBAL, because of OIL. Had the price of oil stayed in the $35 to $45 per barrel range, things might not have gotten so bad.

Omar Kadhaffi must be having a good giggle out of the entire deal..he made a financial killing the last couple years, off his oil sales.

I bet when all is said and done, Japan comes out of this entire fiasco in the best shape financially, because Toyota and Nissan are selling tons of cars right now, to Americans. They(the Japanese) got stung hard in the 80's over the Bank fiasco that occured then. The Japanese banks pulled out of America after that spanking, so I am betting they didn't get stung as bad this time around.


ok..rant over.

Say...how long has it been since anyone mentioned new offshore drilling?? :thumbsup: To bad it won't be American Oil companies doing that new offshore drilling. :thumbsdown:

 

After listening to the Q & A session today, the analysts that were in DC to back up the "Big 3", and a couple of the Senators that were interviewed on Fox afterwards I changed my mind. Let the "Big 3" file for protection and re-organization.

Big D was right. :bow::bow:

 

I dont know where you get your information from but based on personal experience, my dad retired from Chrysler in 1997 after 30 years making $23 an hour... a far cry from $39.

Jap vehicles are better made? BULLSH!T!! Their argument is "my toyota has over 200,000 miles on it," well my 1989 CHEVY S-10 had almost 300,000 miles on it when I sold it and it ran like a new one (last year). I had a 1978 Thunderbird that had over 200k miles on it when I bought it, drove it trouble free for 2 years, and the new owner drove it home. I see lots of elderly people in retirement villages still driving their 1960's car they bought new... yet the 'BIG 3" makes crap. :roll: I take care of my vehicles, thats why they last me.

Dont take this personal orange bear cause its not directed at you, but I'm home this weekend because theirs no frieght... my job is in question... I've imbibed a litte too much...I'm not a happy camper... and I need to vent.

 

I am following this bailout closely. The problem with that is- who will buy a car from a company that has filed???

I have alot to say about this topic to bad i suck at typing or i would be typing up a storm.

 

you know whats funny? is NOT ONE person political or blue collar said a damn thing about the 300 billion BAIL OUT NOT LOAN to one of the most sorriest excuses for a bail out of a bank and their sorry excuses for giving out loans they should have never gave out. and what did they do ...? they went out and had not one big party on my tax dollars but two parties and got caught .and who raised a hundred dollars worth of hell over that ? NO ONE..they should have been thrown in jail for pissing away my tax dollars ,but there isnt any politicians out there with enough guts to do so . regular americans who pay the biggest brunt of taxes need to wake up and stop some of these people from bailing out some of these sorry countries and banks. dont give the auto workers the money they ,after all its the money they make that help pay taxes on the sorry mess george w. made

 

I am sorry for the delay in answering your post, golfhobo. The Constitution lays out our basic rights. It has been altered over the years and not to the benefit of the American citizen. There are several events that have changed our government which is not in the interest of our way of life or the citizenry. The Constitution never allowed for an income tax on the people. There have been those who have argued that the legislation which established an income tax was never ratified by all the states. Many of the problems we have faced in this country has come either directly or indirectly from an over zealous government. Our forefathers saw this country as a group of independent states and rallied against a federal government. That is why states rights was so important to our forefathers. They knew first hand that a centralized federal government would eventually work against the people. And that is exactly what has happened. Before the income tax this country primarily paid for our government with property tax and excise taxes. The American Civil War had more to do with over taxation and states rights than slavery. Slavery was the vehicle the federal government used to justify the invasion of sovereign states in the South. The federal government wanted to impose heavy taxes on agricultural products and the Southern States did not feel those taxes were justified or fair. Before the invasion our military consisted of state militias. States considered themselves independent. That changed after the Civil War. Many states seceded from the union. Had Lincoln not sent in troops to stop elections in Maryland, Washington DC would have been surrounded by the Confederacy. But that gets into another story.

States printed their own money. That changed with the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve established a central bank. This is a private institution and is not provided for in the constitution. Only the government was allowed to print money until the Federal Reserve was put into place. Most people would likely think that the Federal Reserve was a part of the U.S. government if asked. I could go on about the Federal Reserve. It is a sweet deal for those who own it.

The constitution provided for states to appoint their Senators rather than elect them. There are those who feel that it would be better to go back to this method of representation. By electing these individuals their allegiances lean more toward protecting their turf in Washington than representing their constituents.

Individual property rights were protected under a constitutional government. Today, government can take your property and give it to another who will pay them more money. They do this under the guise of eminent domain. There are some other rights under property that I could address, but it would make this response way too long.

Social Security and welfare was never a part of our constitution. Nor was health care. In fact, it goes against everything our forefathers stood for during their time on this planet. It made the citizens dependent on a central government. The enslavement of the citizens begins. Before this program began, we were self sufficient in this country and took care of one another. If you had a health problem or needed assistance your neighbors and churches would help out. They did all that without a government bureaucracy.

There is nothing in the constitution about providing a separation between church and state. There is a provision that prohibits the state or government from establishing a state religion, such as was present in England before our forefathers left. They didn't want a national church with the head of state acting as the head of the church. That is what had happened with the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church during earlier times. The King was head of the Church of England. The Roman Catholic Church was not only Pope but Emperor.

The constitution doesn't provide for the state to educate our children or rear our children. Since the government has taken over these two tasks citizens have become less educated and lack discipline.

The second amendment allows citizens to own guns. In recent years small groups of people have taken it upon themselves to take away our guns under the guise of protection. That is not nor has it ever been true. Contrary to common beliefs this amendment was put in place to prevent the government to oppress the people that they are supposed to represent.

Ruling by executive order was never in the constitution. It reeks of a dictatorship. The constitution provided for 3 distinct levels of government as a counter balance to one becoming too powerful. The branches have become more intrusive of one another in recent years. All too frequently Judges have decided to become legislators rather than doing their jobs. They really should read the constitution so that they can better understand their jobs.

We have a number of taxes which are not provided for in our original constitution. The excessive control through taxation has been in great part the downfall of this country. The EPA was never imagined by our forefathers and was not provided for in our constitution. This branch of government can take or steal personal property and destroy lives without having to go through the courts.

I disagree about common citizens such as farmers serving in congress or other public offices. These people bring common sense to our government. It was designed to be run by average citizens who came, served and went home. Serving in government was never designed to become a career in itself. I think it was considered an obligation rather than a cash cow. Lawyers have manipulated our government for the benefit of themselves and their fellow lawyers. It is a conflict of interest for lawyers to vote on legislation that will affect them.

There are many reasons why and how we got to the point we are today. Much of the problem comes from an apathetic citizenry.