Let the Big 3 go bankrupt !!!
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#51
rigidsporty , 12-06-2008 12:17 AM
07-19-2016Quote:
The profits may go to an American company but those American company's are not creating jobs for Americans.
Some people watched "The Fast and Furious" one too many times. How can they create new jobs when theirs no growth. They cant create new jobs if everyone is buying Hondas, Nissans, and Toyotas and not buying GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Its common sense... if comsumers dont buy a businesses product, that business wont survive. The profits may go to an American company but those American company's are not creating jobs for Americans.
Its like if you went out of town to do all your shopping and when you get back home you wonder why all the local stores are closed and boarded up.
Quote:
I'm not an idiot, but what would happen if the government didn't bail them out?
Then these 2 million Americans are out of a job...I'm not an idiot, but what would happen if the government didn't bail them out?
Auto workers by state Dec 3, 2008 - from CNNMoney.com
#52
Bailing out the banks and auto industry does nothing but promote inefficiency. It undermines the very foundation of this economy. It may sound good that the government comes in and saves the day, but in reality the government is obligating the American taxpayers for unprecedented tax hikes. The taxpayers cannot afford to bail out these companies. Filing bankruptcy doesn't necessarily mean that they will not sell any cars. Nor does it mean that they will cease to exist. Bankruptcy has been used by some very large companies to reorganize and build a very successful company. Bankruptcy could mean that people will flock to dealerships to buy cars at big discounts. The big three have not had to operate with any degree of efficiency in some time. It is like the government. It has gotten so big that it no longer operates efficiently. The media has hyped this to a great degree, just as they did with the banking industry. The government should never have become involved. In fact, they should never have allowed these banks and investment companies to become so large. Smaller businesses that fail do not affect the economy nearly as much as large ones. Let them fail if the must. The pieces will be bought by others. The way these companies have been mismanaged they don't deserve to survive. Unions and their workers have made unreasonable demands and weak executives have caved with their demands. You now see the result.
#53
We need to shrink government down to Constitutional levels. It has become unmanageable and too many people are becoming dependent on it. The expenditure that we pay on the interest of the national debt is over $450B per year and growing. Another of the biggest expenditures are the pensions and health care for retired congressmen and senators. This is another argument for term limits.
These bailouts are just adding fuel to the fire. It is obvious that the funny money that was pumped into the banks has failed to thaw the credit market. Now the tax payers are going to be liable when more banks go down and these auto companies eventually fail. This will cripple the value of the dollar and add to our already unmanageable debt.
The market has spoken on the big 3 auto makers. Consumers prefer other cars besides theirs. If they are to survive, they will have to do some major restructuring (downsizing). The market is flooded with too many vehicles. The demand is low across the board. The diference between the big 3 and the foreign competition is operating costs. For each unit the competition sells, they spend less on labor, health care, pensions, etc. and that has kept them well capitalized to survive tough times. Their sales are down just as much as the big three right now. Why aren't they begging for handouts?
Foreign auto manufacturers are creating more and more jobs in the U.S. The big 3's market share has been declining steadily over the last 30 years, even in economically prosperous times. I personally don't care if the profits go overseas or stay in the U.S. All it does is make the bonuses for the execs bigger. If you want to see a personal benefit from any company's profit, buy their shares.
If we want to help the big 3 get back on track, we will demand that our government eliminate the merciless regulations and taxation that are driving up prices and killing American industry.
My first plan of action would be to eliminate the income tax and replace it with a fair consumption tax. Then we could go ahead and eliminate any unconstitutional government agencies:
1. The IRS (90%)
2. The Department of Agriculture
3. The Department of Education
4. The Department of Health and Human Services
5. HUD and the FHA
6. The Environmental Protection Agency
7. The Drug Enforcement Administration
8. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
Am I missing anything? I'm sure I am. Feel free to add to the list. Oh, how about this one:
9. The Department of Transportation
These bailouts are just adding fuel to the fire. It is obvious that the funny money that was pumped into the banks has failed to thaw the credit market. Now the tax payers are going to be liable when more banks go down and these auto companies eventually fail. This will cripple the value of the dollar and add to our already unmanageable debt.
The market has spoken on the big 3 auto makers. Consumers prefer other cars besides theirs. If they are to survive, they will have to do some major restructuring (downsizing). The market is flooded with too many vehicles. The demand is low across the board. The diference between the big 3 and the foreign competition is operating costs. For each unit the competition sells, they spend less on labor, health care, pensions, etc. and that has kept them well capitalized to survive tough times. Their sales are down just as much as the big three right now. Why aren't they begging for handouts?
Foreign auto manufacturers are creating more and more jobs in the U.S. The big 3's market share has been declining steadily over the last 30 years, even in economically prosperous times. I personally don't care if the profits go overseas or stay in the U.S. All it does is make the bonuses for the execs bigger. If you want to see a personal benefit from any company's profit, buy their shares.
If we want to help the big 3 get back on track, we will demand that our government eliminate the merciless regulations and taxation that are driving up prices and killing American industry.
My first plan of action would be to eliminate the income tax and replace it with a fair consumption tax. Then we could go ahead and eliminate any unconstitutional government agencies:
1. The IRS (90%)
2. The Department of Agriculture
3. The Department of Education
4. The Department of Health and Human Services
5. HUD and the FHA
6. The Environmental Protection Agency
7. The Drug Enforcement Administration
8. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
Am I missing anything? I'm sure I am. Feel free to add to the list. Oh, how about this one:
9. The Department of Transportation
#54
Quote:
States printed their own money. That changed with the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve established a central bank. This is a private institution and is not provided for in the constitution. Only the government was allowed to print money until the Federal Reserve was put into place. Most people would likely think that the Federal Reserve was a part of the U.S. government if asked. I could go on about the Federal Reserve. It is a sweet deal for those who own it.
The constitution provided for states to appoint their Senators rather than elect them. There are those who feel that it would be better to go back to this method of representation. By electing these individuals their allegiances lean more toward protecting their turf in Washington than representing their constituents.
Individual property rights were protected under a constitutional government. Today, government can take your property and give it to another who will pay them more money. They do this under the guise of eminent domain. There are some other rights under property that I could address, but it would make this response way too long.
Social Security and welfare was never a part of our constitution. Nor was health care. In fact, it goes against everything our forefathers stood for during their time on this planet. It made the citizens dependent on a central government. The enslavement of the citizens begins. Before this program began, we were self sufficient in this country and took care of one another. If you had a health problem or needed assistance your neighbors and churches would help out. They did all that without a government bureaucracy.
There is nothing in the constitution about providing a separation between church and state. There is a provision that prohibits the state or government from establishing a state religion, such as was present in England before our forefathers left. They didn't want a national church with the head of state acting as the head of the church. That is what had happened with the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church during earlier times. The King was head of the Church of England. The Roman Catholic Church was not only Pope but Emperor.
The constitution doesn't provide for the state to educate our children or rear our children. Since the government has taken over these two tasks citizens have become less educated and lack discipline.
The second amendment allows citizens to own guns. In recent years small groups of people have taken it upon themselves to take away our guns under the guise of protection. That is not nor has it ever been true. Contrary to common beliefs this amendment was put in place to prevent the government to oppress the people that they are supposed to represent.
Ruling by executive order was never in the constitution. It reeks of a dictatorship. The constitution provided for 3 distinct levels of government as a counter balance to one becoming too powerful. The branches have become more intrusive of one another in recent years. All too frequently Judges have decided to become legislators rather than doing their jobs. They really should read the constitution so that they can better understand their jobs.
We have a number of taxes which are not provided for in our original constitution. The excessive control through taxation has been in great part the downfall of this country. The EPA was never imagined by our forefathers and was not provided for in our constitution. This branch of government can take or steal personal property and destroy lives without having to go through the courts.
I disagree about common citizens such as farmers serving in congress or other public offices. These people bring common sense to our government. It was designed to be run by average citizens who came, served and went home. Serving in government was never designed to become a career in itself. I think it was considered an obligation rather than a cash cow. Lawyers have manipulated our government for the benefit of themselves and their fellow lawyers. It is a conflict of interest for lawyers to vote on legislation that will affect them.
There are many reasons why and how we got to the point we are today. Much of the problem comes from an apathetic citizenry.
Most excellent work, and bears repeating.Originally Posted by GMAN
I am sorry for the delay in answering your post, golfhobo. The Constitution lays out our basic rights. It has been altered over the years and not to the benefit of the American citizen. There are several events that have changed our government which is not in the interest of our way of life or the citizenry. The Constitution never allowed for an income tax on the people. There have been those who have argued that the legislation which established an income tax was never ratified by all the states. Many of the problems we have faced in this country has come either directly or indirectly from an over zealous government. Our forefathers saw this country as a group of independent states and rallied against a federal government. That is why states rights was so important to our forefathers. They knew first hand that a centralized federal government would eventually work against the people. And that is exactly what has happened. Before the income tax this country primarily paid for our government with property tax and excise taxes. The American Civil War had more to do with over taxation and states rights than slavery. Slavery was the vehicle the federal government used to justify the invasion of sovereign states in the South. The federal government wanted to impose heavy taxes on agricultural products and the Southern States did not feel those taxes were justified or fair. Before the invasion our military consisted of state militias. States considered themselves independent. That changed after the Civil War. Many states seceded from the union. Had Lincoln not sent in troops to stop elections in Maryland, Washington DC would have been surrounded by the Confederacy. But that gets into another story.States printed their own money. That changed with the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve established a central bank. This is a private institution and is not provided for in the constitution. Only the government was allowed to print money until the Federal Reserve was put into place. Most people would likely think that the Federal Reserve was a part of the U.S. government if asked. I could go on about the Federal Reserve. It is a sweet deal for those who own it.
The constitution provided for states to appoint their Senators rather than elect them. There are those who feel that it would be better to go back to this method of representation. By electing these individuals their allegiances lean more toward protecting their turf in Washington than representing their constituents.
Individual property rights were protected under a constitutional government. Today, government can take your property and give it to another who will pay them more money. They do this under the guise of eminent domain. There are some other rights under property that I could address, but it would make this response way too long.
Social Security and welfare was never a part of our constitution. Nor was health care. In fact, it goes against everything our forefathers stood for during their time on this planet. It made the citizens dependent on a central government. The enslavement of the citizens begins. Before this program began, we were self sufficient in this country and took care of one another. If you had a health problem or needed assistance your neighbors and churches would help out. They did all that without a government bureaucracy.
There is nothing in the constitution about providing a separation between church and state. There is a provision that prohibits the state or government from establishing a state religion, such as was present in England before our forefathers left. They didn't want a national church with the head of state acting as the head of the church. That is what had happened with the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church during earlier times. The King was head of the Church of England. The Roman Catholic Church was not only Pope but Emperor.
The constitution doesn't provide for the state to educate our children or rear our children. Since the government has taken over these two tasks citizens have become less educated and lack discipline.
The second amendment allows citizens to own guns. In recent years small groups of people have taken it upon themselves to take away our guns under the guise of protection. That is not nor has it ever been true. Contrary to common beliefs this amendment was put in place to prevent the government to oppress the people that they are supposed to represent.
Ruling by executive order was never in the constitution. It reeks of a dictatorship. The constitution provided for 3 distinct levels of government as a counter balance to one becoming too powerful. The branches have become more intrusive of one another in recent years. All too frequently Judges have decided to become legislators rather than doing their jobs. They really should read the constitution so that they can better understand their jobs.
We have a number of taxes which are not provided for in our original constitution. The excessive control through taxation has been in great part the downfall of this country. The EPA was never imagined by our forefathers and was not provided for in our constitution. This branch of government can take or steal personal property and destroy lives without having to go through the courts.
I disagree about common citizens such as farmers serving in congress or other public offices. These people bring common sense to our government. It was designed to be run by average citizens who came, served and went home. Serving in government was never designed to become a career in itself. I think it was considered an obligation rather than a cash cow. Lawyers have manipulated our government for the benefit of themselves and their fellow lawyers. It is a conflict of interest for lawyers to vote on legislation that will affect them.
There are many reasons why and how we got to the point we are today. Much of the problem comes from an apathetic citizenry.
#55
Quote:
These bailouts are just adding fuel to the fire. It is obvious that the funny money that was pumped into the banks has failed to thaw the credit market. Now the tax payers are going to be liable when more banks go down and these auto companies eventually fail. This will cripple the value of the dollar and add to our already unmanageable debt.
The market has spoken on the big 3 auto makers. Consumers prefer other cars besides theirs. If they are to survive, they will have to do some major restructuring (downsizing). The market is flooded with too many vehicles. The demand is low across the board. The diference between the big 3 and the foreign competition is operating costs. For each unit the competition sells, they spend less on labor, health care, pensions, etc. and that has kept them well capitalized to survive tough times. Their sales are down just as much as the big three right now. Why aren't they begging for handouts?
Foreign auto manufacturers are creating more and more jobs in the U.S. The big 3's market share has been declining steadily over the last 30 years, even in economically prosperous times. I personally don't care if the profits go overseas or stay in the U.S. All it does is make the bonuses for the execs bigger. If you want to see a personal benefit from any company's profit, buy their shares.
If we want to help the big 3 get back on track, we will demand that our government eliminate the merciless regulations and taxation that are driving up prices and killing American industry.
My first plan of action would be to eliminate the income tax and replace it with a fair consumption tax. Then we could go ahead and eliminate any unconstitutional government agencies:
1. The IRS (90%)
2. The Department of Agriculture
3. The Department of Education
4. The Department of Health and Human Services
5. HUD and the FHA
6. The Environmental Protection Agency
7. The Drug Enforcement Administration
8. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
Am I missing anything? I'm sure I am. Feel free to add to the list. Oh, how about this one:
9. The Department of Transportation
Another country downsized their gov't, big time, in the past few years. It may have been New Zealand, but not sure.Originally Posted by Colts Fan
We need to shrink government down to Constitutional levels. It has become unmanageable and too many people are becoming dependent on it. The expenditure that we pay on the interest of the national debt is over $450B per year and growing. Another of the biggest expenditures are the pensions and health care for retired congressmen and senators. This is another argument for term limits. These bailouts are just adding fuel to the fire. It is obvious that the funny money that was pumped into the banks has failed to thaw the credit market. Now the tax payers are going to be liable when more banks go down and these auto companies eventually fail. This will cripple the value of the dollar and add to our already unmanageable debt.
The market has spoken on the big 3 auto makers. Consumers prefer other cars besides theirs. If they are to survive, they will have to do some major restructuring (downsizing). The market is flooded with too many vehicles. The demand is low across the board. The diference between the big 3 and the foreign competition is operating costs. For each unit the competition sells, they spend less on labor, health care, pensions, etc. and that has kept them well capitalized to survive tough times. Their sales are down just as much as the big three right now. Why aren't they begging for handouts?
Foreign auto manufacturers are creating more and more jobs in the U.S. The big 3's market share has been declining steadily over the last 30 years, even in economically prosperous times. I personally don't care if the profits go overseas or stay in the U.S. All it does is make the bonuses for the execs bigger. If you want to see a personal benefit from any company's profit, buy their shares.
If we want to help the big 3 get back on track, we will demand that our government eliminate the merciless regulations and taxation that are driving up prices and killing American industry.
My first plan of action would be to eliminate the income tax and replace it with a fair consumption tax. Then we could go ahead and eliminate any unconstitutional government agencies:
1. The IRS (90%)
2. The Department of Agriculture
3. The Department of Education
4. The Department of Health and Human Services
5. HUD and the FHA
6. The Environmental Protection Agency
7. The Drug Enforcement Administration
8. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
Am I missing anything? I'm sure I am. Feel free to add to the list. Oh, how about this one:
9. The Department of Transportation
Your plan is a very good start.
But, how?
The enemies of We the People, are in control.
#56
Quote:
I agree 100%. I will have some comments later, but that was pretty much exactly what I was asking the GMAN for! Excellent post!Originally Posted by 2
Most excellent work, and bears repeating.
#57
Quote:
Your plan is a very good start.
But, how?
The enemies of We the People, are in control.
I HOPE you're not referring to the Democrats..... cuz I sure haven't seen any "reductions" in the size or cost of government by the Republicans lately. Originally Posted by 2
Another country downsized their gov't, big time, in the past few years. It may have been New Zealand, but not sure.Your plan is a very good start.
But, how?
The enemies of We the People, are in control.
From one of your earlier posts, I take it you consider BOTH parties to be the enemies of We the People, right?
#58
Quote:
From one of your earlier posts, I take it you consider BOTH parties to be the enemies of We the People, right?
You would be right.Originally Posted by golfhobo
I HOPE you're not referring to the Democrats..... cuz I sure haven't seen any "reductions" in the size or cost of government by the Republicans lately. From one of your earlier posts, I take it you consider BOTH parties to be the enemies of We the People, right?
Good cop, bad cop. But, the same team.
