[Blacksheep]

Originally Posted by devildice

I think the "lesser" of the evils you listed would be Obama

Obama is the worst choice ! he has no record to stand on, my guess is that's the choice of idiots and the uninformed. :shock:

[HorsePower]

I honestly don't see any of them really 'standing' on anything. Not yet. Only general talk, including Obama.

[Blacksheep]

Originally Posted by HorsePower

I honestly don't see any of them really 'standing' on anything. Not yet. Only general talk, including Obama.

After these ass wipes do a poll, they'll let you know how they stand, depending on the wind.
I'm so down on politicians and politics in general, they're all lying scumbags.
Gee I feel better now. :lol:

[HorsePower]

I don't know if all of them are the same though. I still believe there are at least a few honest politicians out there.

[traveler15301]

Originally Posted by HorsePower

I honestly don't see any of them really 'standing' on anything. Not yet. Only general talk, including Obama.

That was my (somewhat acidic) point....NONE of them "stand" for anything but advancing their own interests!!!

To generalise:
The Dems are so concerned about the poor and downtrodden and the working man and the minorities...but how many of them are wealthier than most on here will ever see?? And how many of them donate (and how much) to thier less fortunate fellows?? But they are all too happy to raise taxes and spend like drunken sailors with gov't money (i. e. OURS!) All the while condoning and participating in outright thievery through bribery, official corruption nepotism and letting all the bids go to their "buddies"!!!!
And as for how they will handle things...it will just be more of the same (I heard it called in a movie "the old Potomac Two-Step")
They harangues the Reps for having a 3 day week in congress and promised a 5 day work week so they could "fix" things...then just this Mon (the first full work week of the New Year and the "New" Congress...they did not work monday at all, ostensibly so that they could all enjoy whatever damn fool football game was on monday night.....the game was in the evening yet they needed all day to celebrate??? HA!!!!

And the Reps(GOP) are just as bad, if not worse. They purport that they are for "free enterprise", small business, laissez-faire, economic growth...hogwash!! The only economic growth they are for is likewise their own!!! Haliburton....Bush's oil buddies...our fatally skewed and flawed tax structure...need I go on.

I take back what I said earlier about the nukes....we should put all the politicians and bureaucrats in Baghdad with the crazy wogs...then let loose!!! What better way to kill two birds with one stone and maximize the effectiveness of our resources!!!!

GIT ER DONE!!!

[HorsePower]

ok Tom, and who would 'lead' our country after that?

we would have to get new politicians, and start over.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Blacksheep

Obama is the worst choice ! he has no record to stand on, my guess is that's the choice of idiots and the uninformed. :shock:

I agree with you about Obama's lack of a record to stand on, and I have serious doubts about his ability to raise funds in order to stage a viable campaign. I do see his candidacy as an effort to elevate his visibility, and position himself for future races. I can envision him as a running mate on the Democratic ticket.

Like it or not, for better or for worse, one area where both Former President Bill Clinton and Sen. Hillary Clinton excel is in the arena of political fund raising. Separately, they are each very powerful, and their reputations for success in raising campaign donations is widely recognized by both parties. Together, they are probably the most formidable political cash machine in the country.

Contrary to what many people believe, I don't think that this upcoming election will be determined according to where a candidate "stands" on any particular issue. For whatever his shortcomings may be as President, one does not have to look long or far to see where President Bush stands on any issues; even though I personally disagree with many of his positions, I would not accuse him of waffling on any issue. In point of fact, I see his refusal to back down from his positions as largely contributing to the Republican's loss of control in both The House and in The Senate.

Because of this, I believe that the only way the Republicans will have any hope for success in retaining The White House in 2008 will be to run a campaign rooted in divorcing themselves from the Bush Administration. There is simply no way that they can ride his coat tails of failed policies. This puts The Republicans into the position of, essentialy, having to run against themselves. As I've said before, The Democrats already have a bountiful cornucopia of ammunition upon which to base their campaigns.

Conversely, the only hope that the GOP has to remain viable is to essentially divorce themselves from GWB, and in effect, run against him. I do not believe that they can do it successfully, nor do /i believe that the far right will allow it to happen.

Now, the problem is that the more they try to do this, the more they risk alienating themselves from the far right, and the ultra-conservative Fundamentalist Christian Right, which has been a faction which the Republican Party has had to rely has relied upon for funding since the Regan Era.

Contrary to what many people believe, if given the choice between funding and supporting The Republican Party with a moderated tone, or sitting out the next election, I believe that the far right will demand that the GOP hold fast to their conservative principals, even if it means losing The White House.

I predict that the elections of 2008 will not be based upon either party "taking a stand", as Ronald Regan did in 1980, or as The Republicans did in 1994; rather, it will be based upon fear mongering by both parties. The Democrats are well situated to stage that campaign, based upon the fears of the Republicans keeping The Oval Office, or regaining control on Capital Hill. At the same time, the Republicans now have little else to base their campaigns on other than the fears of The Democrats having control of Capital hill and the White House.

Former President Richard Nixon ran on a political axiom which stated: "Run to the center, then govern from the right. It was a lesson that Bill Clinton learned well. As for Hillary Clinton running as a Centrist, I have no doubt that she can stage a campaign based upon moderation. Her Husband did it in 1992, but then he tried to govern from the left ; the fallout from that resulted in The Democrat's loss of power in The House, and in The Senate just two years later..

The overwhelming mandate that The Republicans were handed in 1994 forced Bill Clinton into a more moderate position, and in doing so, actually bolstered his standing in the public opinion polls. I think that HRC has learned a lesson from that, and I think that she will carry that lesson into the 2008 race for The White House.

There is one other factor that comes into play here, and that is that I sense the social and political pendulum beginning to swing more to the center, and then to the left. We'll see what happens over the next two years.

[traveler15301]

Originally Posted by HorsePower

ok Tom, and who would 'lead' our country after that?

we would have to get new politicians, and start over.

There are plenty of "leaders"...who hopefully will not devolve into "politicians"...although the lure of power wealth glory and self aggrandisement is difficult to resist, especially for the weak minded.

Have you ever noticed that people of true quality or high intellect seldom are in politics any more??

In a better time (circa late 1700's) those giants of our history DID stand up and take the actions that made our great nation.

Hopefully our new leaders would be cut from a better cloth than the current crop. How would we choose them? As laid out in our Constitution.

I realise my ramblings are but a pipe dream, but I rave on nonetheless. Start over, yes. I am one who seldom advocates "throwing out the baby with the bath water", but sometimes a fresh start might be best!!!

[Useless]

[quote="traveler15301"] There are plenty of "leaders"...who hopefully will not devolve into "politicians"...

I think that there is one true Republican Statesman who refused to yield himself to becoming a politician; That is General Colin Powell, and he will not run for elected office.
:sad:

[HorsePower]

tom, I think you would end up with the same thing in the end. It is human nature.