View Poll Results: What do you think of We Can't Make it Here Anymore?
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Okay, I liked this... in a weird sort of way
#85
08-24-2006, 12:53 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 643
Originally Posted by yoopr
Fallujah Never had a population of 400,000
Good Grief-quit spouting off your junk about things you only read about in the Blogs.
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Fallujah (Arabic: الفلوجة; sometimes transliterated as Falluja or Fallouja) is a city in the Iraqi province of Al Anbar, located roughly 69km (43 miles) west of Baghdad on the Euphrates. Fallujah dates from Babylonian times and was host to important Jewish academies for many centuries. The city grew from an unimportant town in 1947 to a pre-war population of about 350,000 inhabitants in 2003.
Horrific scenes from the ashes of Fallujah
By James Cogan 18 November 2004 Use this version to print | Send this link by email | Email the author Fallujah has been laid waste. It is a hell on earth of shattered bodies, shattered buildings and the stench of death. The city will enter history as the place where US imperialism carried out a crime of immense proportions in November 2004. The US military has no idea how many Iraqis?combatants and noncombatants?have been killed by the thousands of tons of explosives and bullets it has unleashed on the city. Mortuary teams have only just began collecting the dead in the city, while no attempt has been made yet to clear and search the rubble and debris, beneath which hundreds of bodies may be buried...
Published on Monday, April 12.
by Rahul Mahajan Fallujah, Iraq -- On the edge of Iraq's western desert, Fallujah is extremely arid but has been rendered into an agricultural area by extensive irrigation. A town of wide streets and squat, sand-colored buildings, its population is primarily farmers. We were in Fallujah during the "ceasefire." This is what we saw and heard. When the assault on Fallujah started, the power plant was bombed. Electricity is provided by generators and usually reserved for places with important functions. There are four hospitals currently running in Fallujah. This includes the one where we were, which was actually just a minor emergency clinic; another one of them is a car repair garage. Things were very frantic at the hopsital where we were, so we couldn't get too much translation. We depended for much of our information on Makki al-Nazzal, a lifelong Fallujah resident who works for the humanitarian NGO Intersos, and had been pressed into service as the manager of the clinic, since all doctors were busy, working around the clock with minimal sleep.  A Soccer Stadium Turned into a Mass Grave in Fallujah (Source: BBC) A gentle, urbane man who spoke fluent English, Al-Nazzal was beside himself with fury at the Americans' actions (when I asked him if it was all right to use his full name, he said, "It's ok. It's all ok now. Let the bastards do what they want.") With the "ceasefire," large-scale bombing was rare. With a halt in major bombing, the Americans were attacking with heavy artillery but primarily with snipers. Al-Nazzal told us about ambulances being hit by snipers, women and children being shot. Describing the horror that the siege of Fallujah had become, he said, "I have been a fool for 47 years. I used to believe in European and American civilization." I had heard these claims at third-hand before coming into Fallujah, but was skeptical. It's very difficult to find the real story here. But this I saw for myself. An ambulance with two neat, precise bullet-holes in the windshield on the driver's side, pointing down at an angle that indicated they would have hit the driver's chest (the snipers were on rooftops, and are trained to aim for the chest). Another ambulance again with a single, neat bullet-hole in the windshield. There's no way this was due to panicked spraying of fire. These were deliberate shots designed to kill the drivers.
UN calls for Independent Falluja enquiry
The Special Rapporteur on the right to health of the UN Commission on Human Rights, Mr. Paul Hunt, wrote [Monday 3 May] to the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) strongly recommending that it establish an independent and impartial enquiry into the health situation of the civilian population of Falluja, in light of the military operations conducted by the Coalition Forces (CF) since the beginning of April. The Special Rapporteur stated that while reliable information is difficult to obtain, credible allegations persist that the CF have been guilty of serious breaches of international humanitarian and human rights law in Falluja in recent weeks. According to some reports, of the estimated 750 civilian deaths, 90 per cent were non-combatants. "These are extremely serious allegations", the Special Rapporteur said.
?An independent investigation can establish whether or not they are true. If they are not true, the Coalition should not be falsely accused. If they are true, steps must be taken to ensure these grave breaches of international law do not recur. Lives are at stake, and so is the Coalition's credibility", he said. "An independent enquiry is especially important because recent events in Falluja have been shielded from international scrutiny", he added. "Access to the city has been severely restricted, and the extreme insecurity has meant that very few independent monitors have been able to report on events".
Middle East
THE ROVING EYE From Guernica to Fallujah By Pepe Escobar "It's difficult to believe that in this day and age, when people are blogging, emailing and communicating at the speed of light, a whole city is being destroyed and genocide is being committed - and the whole world is aware and silent. Darfur, Americans? Take a look at what you've done in Fallujah." - Female Iraqi blogger Riverbend The Fallujah offensive has virtually disappeared from the news cycle. But history - if written by Iraqis - may well enshrine it as the new Guernica. Paraphrasing Jean-Paul Sartre memorably writing about the Algerian War (1956-62), after Fallujah no two Americans shall meet without a corpse lying between them: the up to 500,000 victims of the sanctions in the 1990s, according to United Nations experts; the up to 100,000 victims since the beginning of the invasion of Iraq, according to the British medical paper The Lancet; and at least 6,000 victims, and counting, in Fallujah, according to the Iraqi Red Crescent. The new Guernica Fallujah is the new Guernica. The residents of the Basque capital in 1937 were resisting the Spanish dictator Francisco Franco. Fallujah in 2004 was resisting the dictator Iyad Allawi, the US-installed interim premier. Franco asked Nazi Germany - which supported him - to bomb Guernica, just as Allawi "asked" the Pentagon to bomb Fallujah. Guernica had no air force and no anti-aircraft guns to defend itself - just like Fallujah. In Guernica - as in Fallujah - there was no distinction between civilians and guerrillas: the order was to "kill them all". The Nazis shouted "Viva la muerte!" ("Long live death") along with their fascist Spanish counterparts before bombing Guernica. Asia Times - Asia's most trusted news source for the Middle East
Falluja's Health Damage
While the North American news media have focused on the military triumph of US Marines in Falluja, little attention has been paid to reports that US armed forces killed scores of patients in an attack on a Falluja health center and have deprived civilians of medical care, food and water. Although the US military has dismissed accounts of the health center bombing as "unsubstantiated," in fact they are credible and come from multiple sources. Dr. Sami al-Jumaili described how US warplanes bombed the Central Health Centre in which he was working at 5:30 am on November 9. The clinic had been treating many of the city's sick and wounded after US forces took over the main hospital at the start of the invasion. According to Dr. al-Jumaili, US warplanes dropped three bombs on the clinic, where approximately sixty patients--many of whom had serious injuries from US aerial bombings and attacks--were being treated.
Chemical Weapons Used In Iraq By US Military, Says Italian Documentary
By Drog (Canada), Section Iraq Posted on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 10:37:45 AM PST A documentary aired on November 8 on an Italian state-run satellite channel RAI claims that the United States military used chemical weapons during a bombardment of Fallujah in November 2004. The documentary, entitled Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre, asserts that the US military used white phosphorus on the civilian population during the bombardment, and backs these allegations with interviews with former US soldiers as well as residents of Fallujah. From Wikinews: White phosphorus is a spontaneously flammable chemical used in battlefield illumination. Contact with the substance results in burning and melting of skin and flesh. According to an account of a former US soldier, the phosphorus explodes and forms a plume, killing everyone within a 150 metre radius. White phosphorus bombs are considered incendiary devices, though RAI claims that they are chemical weapons. The US military admits using white phosphorus to illuminate battlefields, but denies having used it as a weapon against civilians. The United States has ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC), but has not ratified the "Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Incendiary Weapons (Protocol III)" (.pdf) which forbids the use of incendiary weapons against places with concentrations of civilians. A statement issued by the United States in December 2004 pointed out that phosphorus shells are not outlawed, and that "US forces have used them very sparingly in Falluja, for illumination purposes." RAI's film, however, alleges that the US has attempted to destroy footage of use of white phosphorus on civilians in Fallujah. "A rain of fire fell on the city, the people struck by this multi-coloured substance started to burn, we found people dead with strange wounds, the bodies burned but the clothes intact," says Mohamad Tareq, a biologist in Fallujah interviewed for the film. Jeff Englehart, a former US soldier, describes on the documentary: "Burned bodies, burned women, burned children; white phosphorus kills indiscriminately... When it makes contact with skin, then it's absolutely irreversible damage, burning flesh to the bone."
Occupation and Rule in Iraq
Siege Tactics and Attacks on Population Centers The US-led Multinational Force in Iraq has conducted a number of attacks on population centers, resulting in many civilian casualties and massive destruction of the urban physical infrastructure. In addition to the two major offensives on Fallujah in 2004, there have also been assaults on other cities and towns including al-Qaim, Tal Afar, Samarra, Najaf and Ramadi, considered by occupation forces as "insurgent strongholds." Attacking forces typically seal off the entire urban area, using siege tactics that are explicitly prohibited under the Geneva Conventions (1949). Such tactics include cutting off water, food and electricity, forcing residents to flee. Those who remain are exposed to heavy air and ground bombardment and ?free fire zone? risks. Seizure of medical facilities and interference with provision of medical assistance have also been common in these assaults.
Iraqi witnesses: ?Falluja was wiped out?
R?diger G?bel (Junge Welt) Sun 06 Mar 2005 Q: In the past weeks the "elections" dominated the reports from Iraq in the local media. In the province Anbar, where Falluja also lies, only two percent of the eligible voters took part in the vote according to occupation reports. How do you explain that? Haded: The elections in Iraq were important for the USA. They were of enormous symbolic importance, but it was a vote that doesn't represent the Iraqis. The Iraqis were rather erased as Iraqis and instead divided into Shiites, Sunnis, Christians, in Kurds, Turkmen and Arabs, and so on. Political parties that really work for our country did not take part only at all in the election. Because of a lack of security they were for a postponement of the vote. For example, the Sunnis in Mosul, Tikrit, Dijala, Anbar, Falluja, Ramadi and large parts of Baghdad were of this opinion: one cannot participate in the vote so long as occupation troops are in the country. They demanded a clear schedule for their departure. The Shiite Imam however called from the mosques for taking part and explained that those who do not vote are unbelievers. They said to their followers that their vote would support the demand for the departure of the Americans. Voters and non-voters alike were united in wanting the departure of the U.S. soldiers. You say you were there in 2004? I am so sorry to hear that.
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#86
08-24-2006, 01:02 PM
Why sorry??? Think about it, the kids are safer there than with MICHEAL JACKSON...
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YES ! ! ! There is life after trucking. a GOOD life
#87
08-24-2006, 01:05 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 643
Originally Posted by Windwalker
Why sorry??? Think about it, the kids are safer there than with MICHEAL JACKSON...
Hmmmmmmmmm. I think if given a choice, few would choose the burning with chemical weapons thing....
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#88
08-24-2006, 03:48 PM
ahhh politics.... gotta love talking about the three things you dont talk about, LOL. But heres my take... war, what war? We arent at war. At least not right now. North Korea isnt ready yet (give them time). This isnt a war because we arent fighting a country, we are fighting a belief. Will we win, no opps I mean NO. We cant win, why because there is not peace treaty. This (war) started out against Saddam. We didnt take into account that it would pi$$ off the terrorists. Bush got in there thinking it would be a quick defeat and then rebuild what we ruined. But man was he wrong, who is suffering from it well, number one the Iraqi people. Yes Suddam was a horrible person, but now Iraqis are being killed because they are a religious preference by other Iraqis and insurgents. We complain because we are getting killed over there, more iraqis have been killed by insurgants than Americans. The second group of people is our troops and their families. They are just doing what they are told to do just like all of us. It's starting to feel more like 1966 and not 2006. I mean this has jumped into a political (war) pretty quick. And since Im not a dem. or rep. I am just calling it the way I see it. I know those of you who disagree with me will swear Im the opposite political party than you, lol. I dont like the idea of having to vote for a guy because he belongs to a certain political party. As far as Americas demise, I believe if we faulter, its our own fault. And when we go, its not going to be with the other country holding a machine gun, it will be more like another country holding their goods and all our money saying Hey America look, you are broke and cant even support yourselves anymore so what do you say we take over and call it even? Sound rediculous? Think about this, China (a communist country), they export more goods to America than any other country. How many goods do we send them? They dont want our goods. Now, we keep this pace up another 10 years. We get deeper in debt, because we spend more than we make (economics 101). And sooner or later we are no longer a super power. Then theres those of you that say we have a better military, yes we do. But if we dont have the money to support a war, then what? You cant fly a plane without fuel. And thats not even thinking about the very real fact that Chinas government makes ALOT of money off of their exports. So that gives them a lot of money to put into their military and war efforts. And Im sure I will catch a lot of flack for my post here today. There will be those of you who think Im absolutely out in right field on this one, and I respect that. But, if you seriously give thought to what Ive said, you know deep down China is a threat, why, because we have let them become a threat and gave in to the idea of "fair trade" where they get to trade as much as they want and they dont have to import the bare minimum. Iraq, well, now I just sit and nod my head every time I hear the word Iraq. I got to go to the sandbox in 91. We did it right the first time. If we wanted a war with Iraq for a second time, we could have waited for a real problem to give us a reason because trust me Saddam isnt one to be quiet for long, he would have done something real stupid sometime during Bushs administration, guaranteed. And as Paul Harvey says, Thats the rest of the story, Good Day.
#89
08-24-2006, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by Windwalker
Why sorry??? Think about it, the kids are safer there than with MICHEAL JACKSON...
Copy and Paste Idiot on here to show how little she actually knows. Guessing Santa fe 
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#90
08-24-2006, 05:31 PM
Interesting thread.
Look war is hell. The stuff about trying not to hit innocent civilians is either crap, or an indication that the military command officers are feeling guilty and are trying to rationalize not resigning. They are feeling gulty because they know that the only way to win is to kill nearly everyone, which means the war has failed, but if that isn't done, the war has failed. Today on "on point", several war prisoners, part of the opening of a new memorial of war prisoners, noted that air force crews we told to surrender to only soldiers. As prisoners in Germany they were worked in the war, which took them aound the area, and they saw airmen hanging from street lamps. The destruction was massive, but if you think wars are necessary, that is what it takes, both massive destruction of cities and massive killings; and airmen hanging from lamp posts. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld aren't ready to have airmen hanging from lamp posts, so they can't win a war. Of course there is an alternative, but they aren't strong enough to live the rest of their lives with everyone pointing to them saying "they nuked ten million people." Did you let her keep posting? or no? At pbs she said she got banned.... |
