[Consider]

Originally Posted by Windwalker

Okay. Here's what it "stimulated" for thought in me.

I looked at the video a couple of times. That is the kind of thinking that will bring this country to ruin. Not just in the case of war, but in general. It suggests a weakness that will simply stand there and allow foreign forces to over-run all that we love. Al Queda IS a foreign force on our shores. The video shows the mentallity of those that continually go off "HALF-COCKED" and make a lot of noise that degrades the moral of those risking their lives to allow that mentallity.

I was in Viet Nam. I was there when all the "ANTI-WAR PROTESTS" were going on. They did far more damage to the country than the enemy. BY FAR! They also cost AMERICAN LIVES. How many? I don't know. I only know of seven, but without any doubt, there were many more. Don't believe me? Want to know what it was like? How about a sample.

MAIL CALL!!! The postal clerk was standing in the back of a jeep with a bag of mail. He'd pull letters out and call names. BLEVINS (Name changed) A man stepped forward, took the letter, looked at the envelope, then stepped back into the crowd. Three times, his name was called, and the third letter was the one he wanted. He walked through the crowd and sat down under a tree by himself. A few mintues later, there was gunfire. Blevins had his weapon leveled, firing, and was running for the jungle. As he disappeared into the jungle, five more men ran after him to bring him back before he got hurt. Very shortly after they went into the jungle, there was more gunfire. Much more. The rest of us grabbed our weapons and went into the jungle too. When it was over, Blevins was dead. So were six other guys, and another three wounded. Three VIET CONG. Just three. They had had no intention of attacking us, just watching. Maybe counting how many of us there were. One of them died, but the other two got away with the information they had. None of us expected any enemy to be there, so it was like "target prectice in a shooting gallery" for the three enemy. I got to read the crumpled letter under the tree where Blevins sat down to read it. Care to get the just of it?

There was more about how the war was wrong and we didn't belong there, but that's about the size of it. I don't remember it all. And, Blevins was going home in THREE DAYS. His real name is on the WALL in Washington. But it, and others like him, should have their own special area. KILLED BY A LOVED ONE - AT THE HANDS OF THE ENEMY It was THE BEST WEAPON the enemy had on our side. One letter, prompted in part by anti-war sentiment back home, cost seven lives for the price of a postage stamp. Now, go back and find out just how many guys dies just before they were coming home.

So, now, you can take that video, and a number of other things you've had to say, roll them all up into a nice little ball, and shove them where the sun doesn't shine.

Did that provoke enough thought to suit you?

I am more inclined to blame McNamara than the girlfriend.

Maybe he wouldn't have been a very good husband if he was suicidal.

Maybe if he had a source of vitamin B12 he would have been able to handle the stress and survived the danger.

I had a lot of friends who were in Viet Nam. One friend was really upset because he'd gone into a hut shooting, expecting to kill Viet Cong, and he really annihilated a family. Not even any guys in the hut.

I can really see how that would happen. Just too overwhelmed by the whole thing to be able to see. Much like I saw but didn't see that roadhog and Mack were different.

My friend, the one whose experience I just told you about, wasn't even told he was going to Viet Nam, they were all just loaded onto a plane, and then midway there, were told their destination.

[MichiganBlonde38]

Originally Posted by Windwalker

Okay. Here's what it "stimulated" for thought in me.

I looked at the video a couple of times. That is the kind of thinking that will bring this country to ruin. Not just in the case of war, but in general. It suggests a weakness that will simply stand there and allow foreign forces to over-run all that we love. Al Queda IS a foreign force on our shores. The video shows the mentallity of those that continually go off "HALF-COCKED" and make a lot of noise that degrades the moral of those risking their lives to allow that mentallity.

I was in Viet Nam. I was there when all the "ANTI-WAR PROTESTS" were going on. They did far more damage to the country than the enemy. BY FAR! They also cost AMERICAN LIVES. How many? I don't know. I only know of seven, but without any doubt, there were many more. Don't believe me? Want to know what it was like? How about a sample.

MAIL CALL!!! The postal clerk was standing in the back of a jeep with a bag of mail. He'd pull letters out and call names. BLEVINS (Name changed) A man stepped forward, took the letter, looked at the envelope, then stepped back into the crowd. Three times, his name was called, and the third letter was the one he wanted. He walked through the crowd and sat down under a tree by himself. A few mintues later, there was gunfire. Blevins had his weapon leveled, firing, and was running for the jungle. As he disappeared into the jungle, five more men ran after him to bring him back before he got hurt. Very shortly after they went into the jungle, there was more gunfire. Much more. The rest of us grabbed our weapons and went into the jungle too. When it was over, Blevins was dead. So were six other guys, and another three wounded. Three VIET CONG. Just three. They had had no intention of attacking us, just watching. Maybe counting how many of us there were. One of them died, but the other two got away with the information they had. None of us expected any enemy to be there, so it was like "target prectice in a shooting gallery" for the three enemy. I got to read the crumpled letter under the tree where Blevins sat down to read it. Care to get the just of it?

There was more about how the war was wrong and we didn't belong there, but that's about the size of it. I don't remember it all. And, Blevins was going home in THREE DAYS. His real name is on the WALL in Washington. But it, and others like him, should have their own special area. KILLED BY A LOVED ONE - AT THE HANDS OF THE ENEMY It was THE BEST WEAPON the enemy had on our side. One letter, prompted in part by anti-war sentiment back home, cost seven lives for the price of a postage stamp. Now, go back and find out just how many guys dies just before they were coming home.

So, now, you can take that video, and a number of other things you've had to say, roll them all up into a nice little ball, and shove them where the sun doesn't shine.

Did that provoke enough thought to suit you?

That was a very touching story WindWalker, brought tears to my eyes.

I may not agree with everything going on with this war and our country. But who am I to sit back and throw stones while our men and women are out there dying for us. They have my support 100%!!

[Consider]

Originally Posted by MichiganBlonde38

That was a very touching story WindWalker, brought tears to my eyes.

I may not agree with everything going on with this war and our country. But who am I to sit back and throw stones while our men and women are out there dying for us. They have my support 100%!!

It was a touching story. But the fact is that McNamara knew it was hopeless and still sent, how many? 60,000 fellows? to their death there.

Are you saying McNamara has no responsibility?

The thing with sentimental stories is they tend to keep people from thinking.

I think that it was wrong to send our guys over to Iraq and pay Halliburton for millions of dollars of stuff it didn't do, and Halliburton got the contract with No Bid status... why... not becuase of Cheney, do you think?

There is a difference between supporting the soldiers, and objecting to the government lying about WMD to send the soldiers over to make way for Halliburton to "rebuild" and PROFIT.

[Consider]

Have you thought about whether Blevins was even a good soldier to get his buddies killed like that?

Didn't his weak character have a lot to do with him running away?

You are lucky you either didn't follow him or weren't killed.

[MichiganBlonde38]

Originally Posted by Consider

Have you thought about whether Blevins was even a good soldier to get his buddies killed like that?

Didn't his weak character have a lot to do with him running away?

You are lucky you either didn't follow him or weren't killed.

Ya know, I think you are here just trying to get feathers ruffled. I cannot even believe that you would suggest that "Blevins" was not a good soldier. Have you ever stood in the boots of a soldier? I myself can't even imagine the amount of stress, physically and mentally that these men and women are put through. I don't think it is for YOU to decide if "Blevins" or anyone else was a "Good Soldier" or not. The fact is, that they were there fighting for us! My opinion is if you can't say anything positive about our soldiers then maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself.

[Consider]

Originally Posted by MichiganBlonde38

Ya know, I think you are here just trying to get feathers ruffled. I cannot even believe that you would suggest that "Blevins" was not a good soldier. Have you ever stood in the boots of a soldier? I myself can't even imagine the amount of stress, physically and mentally that these men and women are put through. I don't think it is for YOU to decide if "Blevins" or anyone else was a "Good Soldier" or not. The fact is, that they were there fighting for us! My opinion is if you can't say anything positive about our soldiers then maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself.

Blevins got his buddies killed, didn't he? If he hadn't run away, according to the story, the 3 Viet Cong wouldn't have been able to kill the six soldiers.

or did I miss something in the facts?

Blaming his girlfriend is a weak thing to do. It's also ridiculous.

No mention of Robert McNamara, and it's all the girlfriend's fault.

To me, that sounds suspicious.

Are you really in favor of a war where the premise that was used to take us to war was a lie?

Don't you feel cheated? Aren't you outraged?

[Roadhog]

I read enough of Consider's posts over at her PBS site, and she doesn't act the same venomous way, nor show any signs of confusion....like she is exibiting here. I sensed minipulation, but more so, her agenda from the beginning.

Best to ignore this person. She is beyond reason with hate and contempt, and is only here looking to hurt and anger people. She does not treat poeple at PBS with such outright disrespect and disregard.

She is not interested in discussing issues. She obviously feels she is righteous and superior. I think she knows exactly what she is doing...and maybe so do we.

Regardless...it is time for this negative disrespectful crap to come to a halt.

This is going nowwhere...and is peeking my bullsheit meter.

[MichiganBlonde38]

Originally Posted by roadhog

I read enough of Consider's posts over at her PBS site, and she doesn't act the same venomous way, nor show any signs of confusion....like she is exibiting here. I sensed minipulation, but more so, her agenda from the beginning.

Best to ignore this person. She is beyond reason with hate and contempt, and is only here looking to hurt and anger people. She does not treat poeple at PBS with such outright disrespect and disregard.

She is not interested in discussing issues. She obviously feels she is righteous and superior. I think she knows exactly what she is doing...and maybe so do we.

Regardless...it is time for this negative disrespectful crap to come to a halt.

This is going nowwhere...and is peeking my bullsheit meter.

I agree Roadhog... Maybe this thread needs to be locked?

[Roadhog]

Naw...just ignore her. Anyone reading this so far will no doubt do the same. She can talk to herself and work on those brain connections. Hell...I might even pay to watch that! :evil:

[Consider]

Originally Posted by roadhog

I read enough of Consider's posts over at her PBS site, and she doesn't act the same venomous way, nor show any signs of confusion....like she is exibiting here. I sensed minipulation, but more so, her agenda from the beginning.

Best to ignore this person. She is beyond reason with hate and contempt, and is only here looking to hurt and anger people. She does not treat poeple at PBS with such outright disrespect and disregard.

She is not interested in discussing issues. She obviously feels she is righteous and superior. I think she knows exactly what she is doing...and maybe so do we.

Regardless...it is time for this negative disrespectful crap to come to a halt.

This is going nowwhere...and is peeking my bullsheit meter.

Again, attack me personally.

If you do not believe me, that's your loss.

If you believe in Bush... that's also your loss.

At pbs I have several people on ignore. I can't keep people straight there, either. But of course you know more about me than I do.

Here's what I replied, in the beginning. I stand by it. I'm sorry you turned out to be so boorish.

I really liked your post, a lot!

But at the last paragraph I had to disagree.

Yes, our economy is linked. They all are.

It's when you talk aobut pulling our troops home and not offering help...

Here's the thing, we've killed 129,000 Iraqis. That's not terrorists or soldiers or the Mahdi army (?) alone, that's people, moms, grandmas, kids.

Saddam did not kill that many.

So I don't think that there are many who see us as "helping."

To a lot of the world we are no longer their love, their lost love, but rather a stalker whom they fear, or possibly hate.

When I look at snearing Cheney, and hear him talk, I don't get a good feeling. I can understand that the people who went to the war, even volunteered, may believe as you do. But... Cheney made a HUGE amount of money from this war, and it's clear from several accounts that the war was desired by Cheney and others, and planned, and made to happen. It was planned way earlier than all the rhetoric about WMD.

To me, it's like when people worked in asbestos plants and played with the stuff, thinking it wonderful for it's fire retarding properties, but then it clogged their lungs. When those people are interviewed years after they had the job, their feelings are no longer that asbestos is fun. They wish they would have known about the dangers of asbestos.

To me, that's what the images in the video do, they tell us about the dangers... of Clinton and Bush. To me one of the most telling images was that of Bush with Clinton, Clinton with Bush.