Redeemed, how do you read this and Romans 9? Should everything written by Paul be thrown out of the Bible?

Ephes. 1:4-5 (KJV)
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: [5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,...

Ephes. 1:11-12 (KJV)
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: [12] That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.


Since God created man in His (or their) image (Gen 1:26) It is reasonable to assume that God has emotions.

Edited to add (or their) while referring to the Genesis 1:26 passage.

 

Slim...
.......sounds rough what you are having to go through, and I can imagine you are weary of it all. If there is some way you can step back for a break? Go for some walk in the country...any where relaxing? Take some moments to yourself before a nice sunrise? Things like that would refresh me, when I had trials that never seemed to have an end. You have to refresh your soul and just breathe.
Don't feel the need to apologise for your honest feelings. It's good to talk about it with someone. Not someone too close to the same, but someone on the outside, like a friend, or a Minister, someone who can offer you good ears, or maybe a voice....the help you've been asking for, can usually be given to you through another person. This gives you the words you need to hear sometimes, and offers that person an oppertunity to be an instrument of God. Any way....from the outside looking in, is many times a more clear view.
Does your Dad live anywhere nearby? If you could get together with him, and play your guitars together. It's hard to offer you advice, when I barely know you, but I do wish you well, and suggest how ever you find your way through this...try to take care of yourself as well, along the way.

 

I apreciate the comeback, my dad lives in branson, so thats a little to far, but I tell you, I do feel alittle better just spouting off like that. I know it realy didn't change anything, but all the same, maybe I can type normaly now. we will see.

Maybe in my running away from my God, will bring me closer. Don't get me wrong I will never deny Him, I just feel sometimes the pressure He puts on His children is a little to much. I look at the situation and I think, is this the way I need to be with my Son. Is that what He's teaching me, Tough Love. Is He bringing me down further, so I could rely on Him more. All these things are pissibilitys. And I know with the gift's He has givin me, I am held under more responsisbility, than I would be if I didn't have them. I don't know if I want that responsisbility. But then again in order for me to recieve more of Him, I have to let go and live for Him. I guess the letting Go is the problem. We as a people love our sin and idol's, and we as Christians, are more subsepctibal to this than the World. Thank God for Grace.


I remember in Chorinthians, a man had his fathers wife, they were doing the nasty, and he was not ashamed. Paul in his wisdom, told the church to cast them out. If you read on you find out the reason he told them to cast them out, was because of the conscious, of the church. I thought that was wiered. So I read on. I come to find out, that this person who did this was forgiven at the cross, and He knew this, but he loved his lifestyle, so Paul hands him over to satan so he learns not to blaspheme. He then realizes his wrong, and returns to the church.

So who was Paul the most worried about?
He was worried about the church, why? Because the conscious is what condems the believer. What I mean is, The man who did this hurt the church, more than he did himself. The church seeing this, some thinking it was wrong, it hurt their walk with God, by clouding their conscious.
As for the man who did it, he knew he was forgivin therfor using the grace of God for the occasion to sin, this was wrong that is why Paul exspelled him from the church untill he learned to stop that.

I think it is amazing the love of God, it all boiles down to beliefe.
Paul tells us, "everything is permissable, but not all things are profitable."
Even though we as Christians have freedome, we still fallow the rule of "what you reap, is what you sow"

So I guess in a way, maybe that is what going on with me. I am reaping what I sow.

If what you do affects the concious of others that is the greater sin. Because sin is the knowledge of the law. So on a personal level with Christ we are dead to the law, therfor we are dead to sin, this is what John meant, when he said Gods people do not sin. Because the only sin atributed to man, is denying God, the other sins are fruits of the unbelief.

So you are effecting someone elses concious and making them stumble.
Even though you know it is ok to eat meat, and if you are with a brother and he thinks it is a sin to eat meat, then you eat it in front of him. this entices him to eat that meat, and if he does he has sinned. Why? Because his concious condems him, Anything that is not of Faith is SIN.
So you sinned in making him stumble and he sinned against his concious.

WOW, how did I get on that!!

I think I am back I feel so much better.

Maybe I just needed to get it out.

On with the subject.

Thanks roadhog

By the way good to here from you havn't chatted with you since th Fozzy debate.

 

Lets see if I can shed some light on my jaw flapping.

Pre destination refers to those in Christ and the Jews and brethren.
It does not interfer with FreeWill.

Ephes. 1:4-5 (KJV)
[color=red]According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, [/color]that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: [5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,...

This was used earlier, Context people.

He has chosen befor the foundation of the world, that who ever comes to Christ of freewill.

When they come to Christ, His blood cleanses them from all sin therfor, they holy and without blame.re ho

Therfor being in Christ you are predestined, and in His will, this did not affect the will because the choice had already been made by the believer.


In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: [12] That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.


Key word Trusted, so therfor a choice had been made by a believer.

 

It is not a assumtion, according to the bible that we stand by God cares.

 

And where is the proof of this? It sure doesn't come out to be true in any type of historical context now does it?

 

Absolutely not. 2 Timothy 3:16 & 17 I believe cover this. I went back to read Romans 9 this morning and then went on to Romans 10. Paul explains in Romans 10 that it is by faith that we are saved, not by any great deeds of our own. It is by simple demonstration of faith.

Romans 10:8-13

(8)But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, " that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:
(9)That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
(10)For it is with your heart thta you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
(11)As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
(12)For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile-the same Lord is Lord of all and richley blesses all who call on him,
(13)for , "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

I think Paul makes it clear here that man is saved by accepting Christ into his heart and not by a pretermination. Now clearly with God as the creator He knows what he made His creation for and what it will do. God will know well in advance if His creation will ever love and accept Him. But is that because God made that choice for His creation? I saw no, it is because of the make up of His creation and the free will He gave us.

John 3:16-21 is another interesting passage along these lines. Jesus says in verse 20 that evil men hate the light that has come into the world and refuse to come into it for fear of exposing their sin. Verse 21 says that men who live by the truth comes into the light. My question here is Jesus not describing the very choice we all must make. Again that free will issue pops up. (PS all scripture reference from NIV study Bible)

 

Good question. But then again it is kinda like someone asking you to prove your Mom & Dad love you. You could give them examples of how they cared and nurtured you but you could probably give them example of how they hurt you as well. So other than some examples of actions in a historical context you could not prove they love you.

 

God chooses us, we don't choose him...

Predestination - YEEEESSSS!

 

Fozzy, don't tell me you just asked that question.

"God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life." There is your proof Fozzy.
Not to mention Psalm 4 vrs8 "I will both lie down in peace, and sleep; for You alone, O Lord, make me dwell in safty"
"The good sheperd leaves the 99 to find the one"
"God doesn't want any to perish, but all to come to know His Son"

Must I go on.