[mundaka]

Originally Posted by sssheapaul

... This is why we have a judicial system and a congress, because all things are not black and white/cut and dry.

No. We have a judicial system and a congress because they are provided for in the Constitution, unless you agree with TruckinRanger when he says,

Originally Posted by TruckinRanger

I don't care that it goes against the Constitution.

The most successful killer of the last century was unaccountable, unrestrained government. It killed more people than war, more than disease, more than religion, and certainly more than crime or terrorism. You would abandon the one hope your family has to restrain government power? What you are advocating is efficiency, not civilization.

Originally Posted by TruckinRanger

Christianity is constantly under attack with a gun that I haven't thrown into the ring. We can't have prayer in public schools, but in Dearborn, Michigan they (ACLU) made the public school system put in prayer rooms for Muslims.

I know, and its infuriating, and that's the point: ever study the dialectic of Marx and Engels? They developed the very tactic of which you speak as part of an overall plan, the goal of which is to get you to react. By first denying you your right to worship freely, and then unfairly enforcing the religious rights of a newcomer to your society, you are forced into a conflict with your own interests. Right now you are arguing against the Constitution, the only thing that allows you to worship freely. The people who designed this strategy are counting on you to fight against your own constitutional freedoms in an effort to balance things out. Rest assured there are plenty of judges eager to help this process along.

Terrorism works the same way: the goal of terrorism is not terror, but to goad the group in power to react in a way that can be exploited by a sympathetic press. That is why the epithet "reactionary" is tossed about with such disdain in revolutionary circles -- they count on powerful or majority groups to unthinkingly rise to the bait. Don't let them do this to you, and remember there will always be another option.

[theFlyinphoenix]

Originally Posted by Fozzy

Spoken like a true "christian"

:shock: :? Wait a minute, I really didn't want to get into this one but, oh well, don't I remember sometime in the not to far past, as a matter of fact a few different times, abortion clinics being bomb and some sniper lying in wait for doctors? :cry: I think their all f'ed up in the head :roll:

[TruckinRanger]

See Fozz you look at religion as a hinderance to your liberal agenda. From some of your posts I think you are one of those people that don't think they're is a right or wrong. You don't think that they're should be moral standards. I believe you to be one of those that think "If it feels good, do it." Well mr wiseman. if this is not a nation that is based upon majority rule than what is it based upon???? Why do think we need 51 votes in the Senate to get a bill passed??? Same thing in the house. We have a representive government and yes i know you will probably try and say we need a plurarlity to get a few things done. All a plurality is a majority set at a certain number above 50%. Furthermore how have my religious freedoms been affected. I can't go into a public school that my tax dollars have been spent and pray. My children nor anybody elses children are give the choice between creation or evolution being taught. Evolution is a religion. We are not allowed to teach creationism because creationism blows the theory of evolution out of the water. The solar system and everything in it is a creation. A creation must have a Creator. Evolution teaches that they're was a ball of nothing and that ball of nothing came from nowhere and blamo we have everything from the "BIG BANG THEORY". Stop and think how absurd the theory of evolution is. once again another discussion. Furthermore the rooms where these Muslims pray is still APART OF not APART FROM the PUBLIC School. If you are so offended that if you do have children and prayer was allowed in public school, then your child would have the opportunity to dismiss him/herself from the prayer. You show me in the Bible where it says that God is promoting murder to unbelievers. And i'm not talking about their history I'm talking about what they're "god" says to do with non believers and what the true God has to say to do with non believers. You are just trying to split hairs. You show me where Chrisitians in recent history have slaughtered thousands to promote their belief.
For you saying

Actions speak louder than words, and if this is true, why is this country?s morals in such a lowly state? And there are western religions (Amish for example) who also tend to live in the past. To live truely "biblical" lives, would you not say that this country would have to REGRESS a few hundred years?

We have regressed because we haved allowed the left wing sect of society to chip away and moral standards and people have fallen away from the teachings of the Bible. Society doesn't emphasize or differenciate from right and wrong and you know why this is and when all this started??? 1962 Huh what happened in 1962??? THEY TOOK PRAYER OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOL. And if you think they're is no difference between CHRISTIAN and ISLAMIC principals you need your brain checked.
Answer this for me. what is the oldest religion in the world????
Answer. Chrisitianity.
Question:Why is it that every MAJOR religion of the world has some spin off of CHRISITIANITY in regards to its theology????
Answer:Christianity is the oldest religion in the world and people didn't like what was being taught so they turned the Bible into a buffet and began to pick and choose what they agreed with and disagreed with and then said that this is their "religion"
IF you don't call Islam a hateful and intolerant religion that what the hell is it??? You don't call beheading innocent people hateful. You don't call the Arabs call for the destruction of Israel and the U.S. hateful. I guess i'm living in another world. You must have a different definition of hate. Muslims are just as hateful, prejuidice, and racist as the KKK. Do you believe the crap that is coming out of your mouth. Your being subjective and not objective.

[Colin]

Ahem...

And another

Originally Posted by TruckinRanger

Answer this for me. what is the oldest religion in the world????
Answer. Chrisitianity.

[Slimland]

I hope this gets locked soon, same old crap.

I have been very patient with everyone's views INCLUDING FOZZY's!
I have to defend him, he makes very good points.
and so does every one else!!!!!

This boil's down to man and his shortcommings as a human being. We will never agree, and sometimes we will never agree to disagree.

I AM NOT PERFECT, I DO NOT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS, I ONLY HAVE MY FAITH WICH NO ONE CAN TAKE AWAY EXCEPT FOR MYSELF "wich sometimes I faulter, but God knows me better than myself, and He still accepted me"

WITH THIS BEING SAID, I RESPECT ALL VIEWS ON THIS EVEN IF I DONT AGREE, THIS BEING SAID, I MUST STEP OUT OF THIS DEBATE, FOR FEAR OF BEING DOUBLE MINDED ON CERTAIN THINGS, FOR I DO NOT WANT TO BE UNSTABLE, I'VE GOT ENOUGH OF THAT ON MY OWN THINKING. ALL OF YALL HAVE A GOOD DEBATE AND I READ FROM THE SIDE.



Thanks for the opinion's.

[TruckinRanger]

Colin as far as I'm concerned that's not a reputable source. It has no founder. umm if it doesn't have a founder how in the hell can they know the history??? and when it was first believed to come about. The Pentateuch (First 5 books of the Bible) were written roughly 1450 B.C.-1410 B.C. It says roughly 1000B.C. for one of the books of Hinduism umm that makes the Bible about 410-450 years older than Hinduism. Furthermore please refresh my memory. What does B.C. stand for??? OH yeah BEFORE CHRIST. Thanx for helping me once again prove another valid point that there was a perfect Man that walked this Earth and his name was Jesus Christ and he died on the Cross at Calvary for the remission of sin so that all may have everlasting life. Notice it does not say Allah, Mohammad, Buddah, etc.

[TruckinRanger]

Colin as far as I'm concerned that's not a reputable source. It has no founder. umm if it doesn't have a founder how in the hell can they know the history??? and when it was first believed to come about. The Pentateuch (First 5 books of the Bible) were written roughly 1450 B.C.-1410 B.C. It says roughly 1000B.C. for one of the books of Hinduism umm that makes the Bible and Christianity about 410-450 years older than Hinduism. Furthermore please refresh my memory. What does B.C. stand for??? OH yeah BEFORE CHRIST. Thanx for helping me once again prove another valid point that there was a perfect Man that walked this Earth and his name was Jesus Christ and he died on the Cross at Calvary for the remission of sin so that all may have everlasting life. Notice it does not say Allah, Mohammad, Buddah, etc.

[TruckinRanger]

umm Mundaka their are several things that go against the Constitution. Gay Marriage, We don't have true freedom of Speech, Press,etc. Since when was it Constitutional to have an abortion??? I didn't read that women had a right to that in there???? did you??? Oh wait it's because we have judiciariees that rule from the bench and interpret the Constitution to promote their agenda Democrats and Republicans alike. It doesn't say seperation of Church and State. That was a Jeffersonian idea if i do remember correctly, but everybody wants to claim that it says that in there. All it says is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." So don't try and pull the wool over my eyes. People misquote the Constitution ALL the time. Maybe this could be avoided if the PUBLIC school systems would actually teach History and Government.

[Fozzy]

See Fozz you look at religion as a hinderance to your liberal agenda.

Liberal Agenda? LOL...

From some of your posts I think you are one of those people that don't think they're is a right or wrong.

You are so very wrong its almost funny... There is right, there is wrong, there is black and white. All of these things are contrary to the teachings of most organized religions.

You don't think that they're should be moral standards.

Really? You just happen to think that there is some link between the bible and morality.

I believe you to be one of those that think "If it feels good, do it." Well mr wiseman. if this is not a nation that is based upon majority rule than what is it based upon????

It's a land based on the constitution and one of the main tennants is equal protections for all citizens under the law. The simple "mob rule" of a pure democracy is doomed from the beginning.

Why do think we need 51 votes in the Senate to get a bill passed???
Same thing in the house. We have a representive government and yes i know you will probably try and say we need a plurarlity to get a few things done. All a plurality is a majority set at a certain number above 50%.

And all laws must pass (sometimes eventually) constitutional muster. This is when the "majority" usually starts all the high pitched shreiking about "activist judges"

Furthermore how have my religious freedoms been affected. I can't go into a public school that my tax dollars have been spent and pray.

BOLOGNA! YOU can pray anytime you wish. You're children can pray the same way.. of course if you are disruptive or acting like a TV evangelist, they may ask you to take you disruptive behavior back home.

My children nor anybody elses children are give the choice between creation or evolution being taught. Evolution is a religion. We are not allowed to teach creationism because creationism blows the theory of evolution out of the water. The solar system and everything in it is a creation. A creation must have a Creator. Evolution teaches that they're was a ball of nothing and that ball of nothing came from nowhere and blamo we have everything from the "BIG BANG THEORY". Stop and think how absurd the theory of evolution is. once again another discussion.

LOL!!!! So the bible is full of science like people living in the bellies of fishes and the great Noah and the arc?

Furthermore the rooms where these Muslims pray is still APART OF not APART FROM the PUBLIC School. If you are so offended that if you do have children and prayer was allowed in public school, then your child would have the opportunity to dismiss him/herself from the prayer.

But it's not part of the C-L-A-S-S-R-O-O-M. At no time does the class have to take part in the ritual unless they enter the area of the religious ceremony. dismissing oneself from the classroom where everything BUT religious tomfoolery is supposed to be going on is not acceptable.

You show me in the Bible where it says that God is promoting murder to unbelievers. And i'm not talking about their history I'm talking about what they're "god" says to do with non believers and what the true God has to say to do with non believers.

So what are the powers that be and the muslim haters here been spouting off about for the last couple of days? Kill them all and let god sort em out? Camel Jockeys?

You are just trying to split hairs. You show me where Chrisitians in recent history have slaughtered thousands to promote their belief.

First, why does it have to be recent and secondly, why does it have to be thousands? Are you saying that the clinic bombings and the outright public murder of doctors and other workers is a myth?

We have regressed because we haved allowed the left wing sect of society to chip away and moral standards and people have fallen away from the teachings of the Bible.

Really? If these religious teachings were so important and rang of any truth, why the decline?

Society doesn't emphasize or differenciate from right and wrong and you know why this is and when all this started??? 1962 Huh what happened in 1962??? THEY TOOK PRAYER OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOL.

What also happened?

And if you think they're is no difference between CHRISTIAN and ISLAMIC principals you need your brain checked.

Everytime you try and distance yourself from that fact, you start sounding more and more like some middle eastern islamo-fascist.

Answer this for me. what is the oldest religion in the world????
Answer. Chrisitianity.

LOL!!!!

Question:Why is it that every MAJOR religion of the world has some spin off of CHRISITIANITY in regards to its theology????

??? every? hardly. You are starting to look pretty desparate here dude.

Answer:Christianity is the oldest religion in the world and people didn't like what was being taught so they turned the Bible into a buffet and began to pick and choose what they agreed with and disagreed with and then said that this is their "religion"

You mean like the New Testament and the King James version did?

IF you don't call Islam a hateful and intolerant religion that what the hell is it???

It's just like all other major religions in their "hay days". The fastest growing religions and philosphies are not Western Based or anything near Christianity. Christianity is dieing off.. like it or not.

You don't call beheading innocent people hateful.

No one but muslims and arabs have beheaded people?

You don't call the Arabs call for the destruction of Israel and the U.S. hateful.

Where did I say that? The US has been declaring its hate for Cuba and calling for the destruction of the goverment there for decades.. are we hateful? The Arab-Israeli has been going on for the better part of human existance. We really cannot stop it, nor should we try. We can support Israel and thats perfectly fine with me. I support Israel on 99% of the issues they face.

I guess i'm living in another world.

Thats getting closer to being a true statement...

You must have a different definition of hate. Muslims are just as hateful, prejuidice, and racist as the KKK.

And the KKK is alive and well in this country, So are you saying all Christians are in the KKK? You are saying that all Muslims are hateful?

Do you believe the crap that is coming out of your mouth. Your being subjective and not objective.

again... LOL

[geeshock]

Originally Posted by TruckinRanger

Colin as far as I'm concerned that's not a reputable source. It has no founder. umm if it doesn't have a founder how in the hell can they know the history??? and when it was first believed to come about. The Pentateuch (First 5 books of the Bible) were written roughly 1450 B.C.-1410 B.C. It says roughly 1000B.C. for one of the books of Hinduism umm that makes the Bible about 410-450 years older than Hinduism. Furthermore please refresh my memory. What does B.C. stand for??? OH yeah BEFORE CHRIST. Thanx for helping me once again prove another valid point that there was a perfect Man that walked this Earth and his name was Jesus Christ and he died on the Cross at Calvary for the remission of sin so that all may have everlasting life. Notice it does not say Allah, Mohammad, Buddah, etc.

Actually, that would put Judaism before you, and yes, the bible speaks of even older religions long gone avraham (Abraham) and his father were a part of one of those older religions before G-d directed him to leave it all behind and eventually giving us the Torah which is the basics for Judaism and is commonly refered to by it's Greek name The Pentateuch. Christianity didn't come along till Yeshua more commonly called by the name Jesus reached his late 20's. I'm not arguing if I believe in him as I do, but it's going to boil down to ppl asking you to prove it. You can't it's all based on faith. There are little things that remind me that he is watching over me but nothing I can tangibly hold as proof. Also, it's been said at least in one case, probably several others, I'm no ones judge or jury. If that's what they want to beleave, I'm not the one to stop them. Considering I'm Jewish and probably one of the first on the hammas hit list, I should be the most concerned but I have the live, let live mentality. There are many flavors of Islam in this country as well as many forms of Judaism and Christianity. Suppose if I were to judge catholics off the middle ages when they burned many Jews at the stake or Christianity from the holy wars...

Just remember, we all have our faults and it's probably not the most productive way to spend our time. blah, blah, blah ... enough on this rant, lol