[geeshock]

Ok, here is the poblem with banning islam. If you ban it, then you have to start banning other religions as well. Do we make decisions just based on what we as an individual beleave? I am Jewish, and I have no problem with most muslems, it's when you start talking hammas I start haveing issues and all I can say there is to leave it in his hands. Also you can say the same about most any religion. Christians burned jews at the stake in the middle ages. I think we all shead blood at one point or another. The point is, ban one religion and you start down a dangerous path. thats all I can say on this.

[Fozzy]

Fozzy, you know what I was talking about, don't take it out of context.
Freedom, USA.

But if you must know, Freedom in Christ.

So which was it? I was "taking something out of context and now you "fess up" that you weren't really talking about the freedoms that the US allows? The two are exact opposites. You cannot say that there is any freedom related to Christians as their history for religious based attrocities are just as long and dirty as the Muslims of today. The fact the Christians seem to love to run from their own past while pointing their fingers at everyone else is what makes them seem as a group so blatantly hypocritical.

[Fozzy]

Originally Posted by bulldog2036

...freedom to mow down college students to avenge the killing of muslims?...I say apprehend them, kill them and let their "allah' sort 'em out...sometimes the gloves just have to come off. When was the last time anybody killed a muslim to avenge the deaths of christians?

When's the last time? LOL,,,, So you are being honest and saying that it has happened before? cool!

[sssheapaul]

Allot of people are using the "slippery slope" argument. I have a problem with this argument, because if you subscribe to this line of thinking, then we shouldn't have prisons because someone innocent might end up in jail. This is why we have a judicial system and a congress, because all things are not black and white/cut and dry. There are some things that while they MIGHT be able to be abused, are necessary. And I believe that we may be approaching that time concerning Muslims. I do believe in religious freedom, but there have GOT to be some boundaries for a CIVILIZED people.

[Slimland]

Originally Posted by Fozzy

So which was it? I was "taking something out of context and now you "fess up" that you weren't really talking about the freedoms that the US allows? The two are exact opposites. You cannot say that there is any freedom related to Christians as their history for religious based attrocities are just as long and dirty as the Muslims of today. The fact the Christians seem to love to run from their own past while pointing their fingers at everyone else is what makes them seem as a group so blatantly hypocritical.

What are you just wanting an arguement?
We have Freedom of religion in the USA. What part of that did you not get?
I being a Christian have freedom in Jesus Christ, What part of that did you not get?

Fozzy, you base your argument on religion, I base mine on Christ, and the New Testament that He Gave to ALL. I do not deny that there has been persicution, by the church, this all was done under RELIGION.
What am I pointing my finger at Fozzy?
I was talking about the freedom the USA allows.
Then I stated the Freedom in Christ, but I do not expect you to understand it.
You, have no argument with me, but your argument is with religion and it's discrimination. This I can understand!!

[littleman2]

After Reading this and then doing some research in the subject of banning religion in America it has happened here in the good old US of A.

In 1838 Governor Boggs of Missouri wrote executive order 44 to have all members of the Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Killed! or its more comely called the Mormon extermination Order it was law for 138 years. when the said church called upon the president Of the United states for a redress of wrongs his words were I agree with your plight But I can't sacrifice the votes of that state. I would hate to see some thing like that happen here In America again.

[TruckinRanger]

Sorry I couldn't get involved in this heated debate sooner. I have been up in New England and didn't have a signal for my internet.
FIRST FOZZY: Let me debunk your allusion to the Bible. God and Christianity do not promote murdering people who do not convert. God will do that when he comes back to judge the world. Jesus specifically states. Love thy neighbor as thy self. God says "Vengence is mine saith the Lord." So quit trying to compare Chrisitianity to Islam. I do acknowledge that during the middle ages Christians were burned at the stake and so were people of other religions. We are now more civilized. Certain sects in the Middle East have not evolved since the 8th century. Furthermore, for all those that disagree with me I respect all opinions but lets not for get the facts. WE ARE A CHRISTIAN NATION. A NATION FOUNDED UPON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS. NOT ISLAMIC PRINCIPALS. Let us not forget as Littleman already stated that the Mormons were forced to give up polygamy. ISLAM PROMOTES HATE. We could argue that the KKK was a religion. They tried to use the Bible to prove that whites are supreme and everybody else is dirt therfore they felt they had to kill blacks, mexicans, asians, etc. The KKK is looked upon as a HATE group. Why can we not look at ISLAM as a HATE group. Furthermore, as somebody tried to say "don't throw a gun into the ring..." Christianity is constantly under attack with a gun that I haven't thrown into the ring. We can't have prayer in public schools, but in Dearborn, Michigan they (ACLU) made the public school system put in prayer rooms for Muslims.
In Sacramento, CA they can't say the Pledge of Allegiance because it has the words "Under God..." in it. I don't want to hear all this B.S. about religious freedom. Those are just a few of my examples of the double standards here in the U.S. when it comes to "Religious Freedom". As long as it isn't Judaism or Christianity we have to make accomadations so as not to offend the minorities in our country. Last time I read a History book I thought we were a nation founded upon majority rule. Not upon whoever can pay the political figures in our country the most money to propagate their agenda and the FORCE it upon others. They can only take away what we let them. I believe if the government started to overstep its bounds we would have another Civil War or another American Revolution, which in some days I don't think is such a bad idea.
Oh yeah before I forget let me use the old cliche. The Constitution since everybody wants to try and use it to defend their stance says "freedom of religion" NOT "FREEDOM FROM RELIGION"

[Fozzy]

FIRST FOZZY: Let me debunk your allusion to the Bible. God and Christianity do not promote murdering people who do not convert.

Too bad the history of the Christians and other western "peace loving" religions do not support that theory.

God will do that when he comes back to judge the world. Jesus specifically states. Love thy neighbor as thy self. God says "Vengence is mine saith the Lord." So quit trying to compare Chrisitianity to Islam.

I?m not "comparing" the two, to me there is no difference. You are the one trying to make this an apples and oranges argument. Someone decided to post some rather carefully selected texts, I just posted some more from another religion.

I do acknowledge that during the middle ages Christians were burned at the stake and so were people of other religions. We are now more civilized.

No, we as a species are not evolved at all. If this were a true statement then we would not be re-living the onslaught of yet anther religious movment bent on instilling theirversion of their religion.

Certain sects in the Middle East have not evolved since the 8th century. Furthermore, for all those that disagree with me I respect all opinions but lets not for get the facts. WE ARE A CHRISTIAN NATION.

Actions speak louder than words, and if this is true, why is this country?s morals in such a lowly state? And there are western religions (Amish for example) who also tend to live in the past. To live truely "biblical" lives, would you not say that this country would have to REGRESS a few hundred years?

A NATION FOUNDED UPON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPALS. NOT ISLAMIC PRINCIPALS.

There is no difference. This country was founded on many principals. the Ten Commandments being ONE of them.

Let us not forget as Littleman already stated that the Mormons were forced to give up polygamy.

And the White southern rednecks were forced to give up lynchings? so what?

ISLAM PROMOTES HATE.

No, it doesn?t. That is purely your opinion.

We could argue that the KKK was a religion. They tried to use the Bible to prove that whites are supreme and everybody else is dirt therfore they felt they had to kill blacks, mexicans, asians, etc. The KKK is looked upon as a HATE group.

They are both. They are a religious hate group. There are several Christian based hate groups.

Why can we not look at ISLAM as a HATE group.

Because there are far more peaceful Muslims than radical ones.

Furthermore, as somebody tried to say "don't throw a gun into the ring..." Christianity is constantly under attack with a gun that I haven't thrown into the ring. We can't have prayer in public schools, but in Dearborn, Michigan they (ACLU) made the public school system put in prayer rooms for Muslims.

The teachers are not leading the prayers nor forcing the prayers to be said by non-muslims in the classroom.

In Sacramento, CA they can't say the Pledge of Allegiance because it has the words "Under God..." in it. I don't want to hear all this B.S. about religious freedom.

Under god was ILLEGALLY added to the pledge in the 1950?s, it was made illegal when it was changed from the original which was basically neutral before. Had the pledge not been altered then the children would still be reciting it.

Those are just a few of my examples of the double standards here in the U.S. when it comes to "Religious Freedom". As long as it isn't Judaism or Christianity we have to make accomadations so as not to offend the minorities in our country.

That?s a pretty simplistic view.

Last time I read a History book I thought we were a nation founded upon majority rule.

Which country?s history book was this? It sure wasn?t the book on American History.

Not upon whoever can pay the political figures in our country the most money to propagate their agenda and the FORCE it upon others.

You mean like Pat Robertson and the religious NEOCON wing of the Republican party?

They can only take away what we let them.

Take away? What rights have been taken away from you personally?

I believe if the government started to overstep its bounds we would have another Civil War or another American Revolution, which in some days I don't think is such a bad idea.

Considering the thought process of this post of yours, I?m not too surprised. This would make Lebanon look like a tea party

Oh yeah before I forget let me use the old cliche. The Constitution since everybody wants to try and use it to defend their stance says "freedom of religion" NOT "FREEDOM FROM RELIGION"

So once again, the Majority religion in this Country is CATHOLIC, should your children be forced to state their allegiance to the Catholic Church and take all their religious instruction from Vatican? You have the choice to observe whatever faith you wish, This is your right. You do not have the right to force other American citizens into ANY of the religious Mumbo Jumbo that you choose for yourself.

[bulldog2036]

...well said truckinranger...can't remember the last time an AMERICAN CHRISTIAN strapped himself with explosives and lit up a bunch of muslims....I wonder, could it be because we are somewhat more CIVILIZED?
I am not saying we do not have our criminal element but to do what they do in the name of their stinking camel jockey Allah is just beyond human.
These people are below animals.

[Fozzy]

Originally Posted by bulldog2036

...well said truckinranger...can't remember the last time an AMERICAN CHRISTIAN strapped himself with explosives and lit up a bunch of muslims....I wonder, could it be because we are somewhat more CIVILIZED?
I am not saying we do not have our criminal element but to do what they do in the name of their stinking camel jockey Allah is just beyond human.
These people are below animals.

Spoken like a true "christian"