[flood]

go back to the old days and use a real STOCK car body and not some airo thing with stickers on it so you can tell it's a ford or chev, dodge. and for that matter make it a real 2 door body and not a 4 door sedan.? the chevy's COT is an impala..! when's the last time chevy made a 2 door impala.....? and if you took the stickers off the ford fusion would you even know what the car was...

if i remember it used to be called stock car racing wasn't it

[Mr. Ford95]

After listening to David Poole this morning, time for a minor rant.

How can you even fathom sitting a driver who is not at the shop when this stuff goes on?? They already have enough crap on their plate during the week since NASCAR and sponsor's want these drivers to be so accesible that they don't have time to be at the shop M-Thursday during the work hours. The crew chief is there for that reason.

David said there was a rule, the drawing of the COT that all teams got. Ok, so what. NASCAR never wrote in the rule book to leave the bodies alone, they only did it by word of mouth. If they want this to be like F1, then as I said above, NASCAR needs to build all the bodies and if a team goes thru tech and something is out of wack, park them for the race. First though, stop the word of mouth crap and put it in black and white.

Flood, did you know your right along the lines of what a lot of the old, retired drivers think NASCAR should do?? Harry Gant talked to Helton recently and Helton asked him what he thought of the sport today. Gant spoke his mind, "You need to go back to a real stock car and put your foot down on allowing these guys to tinker on these cars. You let it get out of control in the early 90's and now your trying to reign it back in when it should never have been allowed to go this far. These cars look nothing like a stock car anymore and it's sad, this ain't racing."

To the penalty, I'm surprised Knaus didn't get a 10 race vacation for all of his previous history. I'm sure the fans will give a huge backlash at that because it appears he was the ringleader of this fender deal.

[yoopr]

Helton and Pemberton are proving themselves to not believing in anything they say.
They said that with COT the fines and penalties would increase.
Same ole same ole BS fine and penalty.
What Poole is saying is what I've been saying all along except he wusses out.
I emailed the show today and told them to stop cheating was to put a sign on the car saying "I cheated"
Just like the morons who carry a sign when they are caught shoplifting. Sponsors of the cars would love that and come down like a ton of bricks on the car owner and chiefs

[Mr. Ford95]

Yoop, did you hear the lady call in about the sponsor's deal with it?? Saying she would take her money elsewhere besides Lowes and Dupont since they are apparently kosher with it.

Well hello, they are getting a TON of free publicity and airtime albeit not the greatest way to get it, but your getting major TV time out of it. They could speak out against it in public and say it was wrong but this isn't a case of these teams getting caught every week or every other week.

This just proves that Knaus is one of the smartest men in the garage. He and his guys came up with the weird shock deal at Dover, the Daytona 500 stuff last year, this fender deal.......he was also part of the Ray Evernham T-Rex project for the car that Jeff Gordon used to smoke the field in The Winston in 97. While Nascar banned several items with that car, a few were not banned(think today's current coil binding.)

[mike3fan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Ford95

Yoop, did you hear the lady call in about the sponsor's deal with it?? Saying she would take her money elsewhere besides Lowes and Dupont since they are apparently kosher with it.

Well hello, they are getting a TON of free publicity and airtime albeit not the greatest way to get it, but your getting major TV time out of it. They could speak out against it in public and say it was wrong but this isn't a case of these teams getting caught every week or every other week.

This just proves that Knaus is one of the smartest men in the garage. He and his guys came up with the weird shock deal at Dover, the Daytona 500 stuff last year, this fender deal.......he was also part of the Ray Evernham T-Rex project for the car that Jeff Gordon used to smoke the field in The Winston in 97. While Nascar banned several items with that car, a few were not banned(think today's current coil binding.)

What make Chad so smart? cheating?
If he's so damn smart and he works for the biggest,deepest,best organized team in Nascar why does he seem intent on bringing cheated up cars to the track? can't he beat his competitors legally?

Why do people think that the racing is gonna suffer if the crew chiefs are not allowed to work in the grey areas? can't you set up the car better than the next guy or can't your driver out drive the other guy?

Just like Poole says and I can't agree with him more.Stop think that everyone is doing it and therefor I must do it also,bring a legal car and beat everyone straight up.

The penalty is more than what the 8 car got because they were not allowed to pratice and qualify.

A question was asked on the show yesterday by Patterson if the race is close and exciting and provides 3+ hours of entertainment,what do we care how it gets there? If Nascar provides the whole damn car the day the teams show up on the weekend to race and the teams take it from there and put on a great show who cares? I realize this is a bit extreme but in the end does it really matter? I watch the races for the race,drivers and entertainment.

Everyone who calls in to the shows has all the answers and one of the things that come up is Nascar is ruining the sport. How? The racing is 10x better now than before,you can actually see the races on TV every weekend and for better or worse we have a glut of information about the sport and everthing involved,I can also sit in my comfy lazyboy and listen to every word that my driver says to his crew,watch telemetry,live scoring,points and if I wanted I could watch the whole dang race from his car.. I admit Nascar pisses me off on occasion but in the overall big picture of things I think they do a pretty damn good job. Seems to me we have it pretty good,anyone remember when we got about 15 min of coverage on Wide World of Sports.

[yoopr]

I didn't catch her call Ford
Again, Money fines mean Nothing to these teams-Points mean a little bit but Sponsors wouldn't stand for a car that has "I cheated" on it and nothing would hurt a team worse than Embarassment over money and points.

[Part Time Dweller]

Originally Posted by Mr. Ford95

NASCAR never wrote in the rule book to leave the bodies alone, they only did it by word of mouth.

First though, stop the word of mouth crap and put it in black and white.

Looks black and white to me;

Sections 12-4-A (actions detrimental to stock car racing); 12-4-Q (car, car parts, components and/or equipment used do not conform to NASCAR rules); 20-2.1E (parts or components of the car not previously approved by NASCAR that have been installed or modified to enhance aerodynamic performance will not be permitted); and 20-2H (fenders may not be cut or altered except for wheel or tire clearance which must be approved by the Series Director) of the 2007 NASCAR rule book.

What part of; 20-2.1E (parts or components of the car not previously approved by NASCAR that have been installed or modified to enhance aerodynamic performance will not be permitted) is so hard to understand? :lol:

[yoopr]

That's a NASCAR Cover their Ass rule when nothing else applies

[Part Time Dweller]

That's a NASCAR Cover their Ass rule when nothing else applies

A rule which is in the 2007 rulebook, available to all the teams, including Hendrick. :lol:

Again, What part of; 20-2.1E (parts or components of the car not previously approved by NASCAR that have been installed or modified to enhance aerodynamic performance will not be permitted) is so hard to understand?
or, this one; 20-2H (fenders may not be cut or altered except for wheel or tire clearance which must be approved by the Series Director):lol:

Doesn't really look like a CYA rule to me.


The teams were specifically told not to mess with the bodies on the COT, and from the looks of it, put it in writing. Part of the reason for the COT is to keep the big $ teams like hendrick from spending tons of money in the windtunnel looking for an aero advantage tweaking the bodies. The smaller teams can't afford that, so Nascar is evening the playing field with the don't mess with it rules. Unless you want to keep seeing Hendrick and Roush trading the dominance back and forth, this is a good thing.

[mike3fan]

Originally Posted by Part Time Dweller

A rule which is in the 2007 rulebook, available to all the teams, including Hendrick. :lol:

Again, What part of; 20-2.1E (parts or components of the car not previously approved by NASCAR that have been installed or modified to enhance aerodynamic performance will not be permitted) is so hard to understand?
or, this one; 20-2H (fenders may not be cut or altered except for wheel or tire clearance which must be approved by the Series Director):lol:

Doesn't really look like a CYA rule to me.


The teams were specifically told not to mess with the bodies on the COT, and from the looks of it, put it in writing. Part of the reason for the COT is to keep the big $ teams like hendrick from spending tons of money in the windtunnel looking for an aero advantage tweaking the bodies. The smaller teams can't afford that, so Nascar is evening the playing field with the don't mess with it rules. Unless you want to keep seeing Hendrick and Roush trading the dominance back and forth, this is a good thing.

I totally agree,Nascar specifically told the teams not to mess with this car especially the body,bring a legal car and you will not have any problems.

I love how Nascar is always the bad guy,how did that happen?
When will the team owners take the repeat offender crew chiefs to task?

I heard that Hedrick sent a memo that any future fines will come out of the offending persons pocket,thats a good start.