[golfhobo]

kreeper01 said:

Yes, under the "14 hour rule" you do have 11 hours to drive, minus that from 14 and you get 3 hours under the 14 for fueling, pre and post trips and loading and unloading.

The "14 Hour Rule" applies ONLY to a window within which you can only drive 11 hours. Driving beyond that point, regardless of whether you have exceeded your 11 hours or not, will get you a violation. It says NOTHING about getting your fueling, breaks or loading done within that time.

I have logged all the above in 14 hours while running "regional".

Which only proves you have NEVER done a long haul load where you have to manage your driving time under the 14 hour rule.

BTW, you never specified "OTR, Regional, or Dedicated".

That is because the 14/11 hour rules apply to ALL such categories equally. The ONLY variant rule is the short haul rule (100 mile radius/15 hours) But, we weren't talking about that.

That is where you, Golfhobo, made the mistake.

Sorry, but YOU are wrong. "I" don't MAKE mistakes when it comes to these rules. I understood them while still in CDL school. I'M not the one asking questions about them! Now.... you can argue with me, and split hairs with me.... or you can LEARN from me. I really no longer CARE.

"OTR", you are darn tooting i won't make it (not as a solo driver), Regional and Dedicated i will.

NOT if you don't learn and understand the rules. The fines start at $400+.

OTR means all 48 states, not the states east of the mississippi river, Regional and Dedicated are within a few state area.

OTR means anything NOT covered under the "Short haul/local driver rules." The number of states is immaterial.

Originally Posted by golfhobo

What part of "A driver may remain on duty after the 14-hour window closes" dont you understand?

I'm STILL waiting for an answer to this.

Let me try again. You have a 14 hour window, within which you can drive only 11 hours. Then you MAY stay on duty on line 4 for as long as you wish. However, before returning to DRIVING, you must take 10 hours off.

Let's say within your 14 hour window you drive 11, take a 2 hour nap, fuel for 30 mins, and log 15 mins each for pre and post trips. You just used all 14 of your hours. When do you plan on unloading your truck? AFTER a 10 hour break? You won't be in trucking long. :lol:

[/quote]

[kreeper01]

I did read section 395 in the Safety Regulations book, it did state you can remain "On Duty" past the 14 hours of on duty, however, it did state that you have to be relived of any responsibilities surrounding any driving or on duty responsibilities, i.e. Fueling, tire checking, or maintaining good working order of the truck.

i also flipped over about 2 pages and it stated you have "a 10 hour break within a 24 hour window."

I have heard of this "Back Logging" thing that some drivers do without getting in trouble with the logs department of any company and with the D.O.T. officer. My question is: How do you find time to get any sort of rest/sleep when doing this :?: Some companies i was with was wanting me to continuously drive when i was so tired that i could not even see 1/2 mile in front of the truck i was driving.

Anyway, this matter is closed in my book. If i cannot do it legal with just 1 log book, i really do not have any business even driving.

[golfhobo]

Kreeper: Since you've "closed the book," I don't know why you asked a question. Nevertheless.... I wish you would post the page numbers for your first and second paragraphs. The first is ALL wrong, and the second is highly questionable. I would like this info just for ME, so I can see where you are getting mixed up. I guess you don't want any more clarification of the rules. You carry on now.... JUST the way you want. As long as you're ONLY driving a truck (and NOT trying to be a nuclear scientist,) your misunderstanding won't affect me in the least.

For the record, I never advocated "backlogging." You be safe now, ya hear?

[madii'swife]

I am once again amazed at how much arguing goes on over what should be "simple" things....oh..wait, we're involving the government here aren't we...so much for simple

[oldmanrandy]

Let me complicate this a little.
If the driver has a learners, is the passenger(instructor) also concidered a driver.
Example: instructor drives for eleven hours then the student drives for eleven with the instructor(in the passenger seat instructing) not sleeping.

[kreeper01]

Originally Posted by madii'swife

I am once again amazed at how much arguing goes on over what should be "simple" things....oh..wait, we're involving the government here aren't we...so much for simple

Speaking of this, everyone has there own version of how they perceive the 14 hour rule.

As for GolfHobo, grab the "Safety Regulations Book", every company should of handed them out, read section 395. If you wish to continue this subject, fine by me, i am mearly stating that there is enough time within 14 hours to easliy drive 600+ miles if you are not sitting no more than 45 minutes, if not 1 hour waiting at a shipper or receiver getting loaded or unloaded and no more than 30 minutes waiting on dispatch giving you a new load assignment.

I can say that when i deliver a load, with a good company, i am away from the shipper in 45 minutes, at a receiver within 45 minutes and waiting on dispatch within 30 minutes...right there is 2 hours total out of 14 hours, that leaves 12 hours, 11 of which to drive, 15 minutes to fuel...after all that is said and done, you should have 45 minutes left on 1 days log to drive or cut it short and take your "10 consecitive hours off duty".

Me personally, i have been with some really lousy companies that had me sit around for half the 14 hours (8 hours is how many hours i have sat on duty) at a shipper, receiver or waiting to be dispatched. Yes, i could of taken my 10 hour break, but for some reason, some people do not consider sitting at a shipper, receiver or waiting to be dispatched as "On Duty".

All i can say to everyone viewing this post or writing, get a copy of the Safety Regulations book and read section 395. As of right now, This Subject IS NOW CLOSED.

[Dawn]

It is really simple! Once you enter lines 3 or 4 after a 10 hour break or more your 14 hour clock is ticking. The only thing that matters in that 14 hour period is you do not drive over 11 hours. If you need to be on line 4 (for whatever reason) AFTER your 14 hour is up you can do so. You JUST CAN NOT DRIVE AFTER THE 14TH HOUR. You can work all you want, I can work you in the office for 24 hours and pay you and you will not be in violation. You can work on your truck, you can fuel the truck, you can do whatever you just can't DRIVE!

No one can say how many miles you can drive in a day anymore, you have to log what you actually do so if you run into delays (traffic, loading etc) then this will interfere with the miles you would have been able to get!
Once you take a full 10 hour break you can drive again, even if it is in the same day!

D-1. May a driver be on duty for more than 14 consecutive hours?
Yes. A driver may remain on duty for more than 14 hours; however, the driver of a property-carrying CMV cannot drive after the 14th hour after coming on duty. Also, the additional on-duty time will be counted toward the 60/70-hour on-duty limit.

DOT does not want you driving the truck after being awake for 14 hours. They don't care if you break your arm working on the truck as long as you are not on the roads taking a chance of killing someone or yourself.

The 14 hour is that simple! Now if you want to split break there is that option and different explination!

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by Dawn

It is really simple! Once you enter lines 3 or 4 after a 10 hour break or more your 14 hour clock is ticking. The only thing that matters in that 14 hour period is you do not drive over 11 hours. If you need to be on line 4 (for whatever reason) AFTER your 14 hour is up you can do so. You JUST CAN NOT DRIVE AFTER THE 14TH HOUR. You can work all you want, I can work you in the office for 24 hours and pay you and you will not be in violation. You can work on your truck, you can fuel the truck, you can do whatever you just can't DRIVE!

That isn't what you used to say.

No one can say how many miles you can drive in a day anymore, you have to log what you actually do so if you run into delays (traffic, loading etc) then this will interfere with the miles you would have been able to get!

Apparently you don't understand how the regs work regarding adverse driving conditions and emergency driving conditions.

(b) Adverse driving conditions. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (h)(2) of this section, a driver who encounters adverse driving conditions, as defined in § 395.2, and cannot, because of those conditions, safely complete the run within the maximum driving time permitted by §§ 395.3(a) or 395.5(a) may drive and be permitted or required to drive a commercial motor vehicle for not more than 2 additional hours in order to complete that run or to reach a place offering safety for the occupants of the commercial motor vehicle and security for the commercial motor vehicle and its cargo. However, that driver may not drive or be permitted to drive-

(b)(1)(i) For more than 13 hours in the aggregate following 10 consecutive hours off duty for drivers of property-carrying commercial motor vehicles;

(b)(1)(ii) After the end of the 14th hour since coming on duty following 10 consecutive hours off duty for drivers of property-carrying commercial motor vehicles;

(b)(1)(iii) For more than 12 hours in the aggregate following 8 consecutive hours off duty for drivers of passenger-carrying commercial motor vehicles; or

(b)(1)(iv) After he/she has been on duty 15 hours following 8 consecutive hours off duty for drivers of passenger-carrying commercial motor vehicles.

(b)(2) Emergency conditions. In case of any emergency, a driver may complete his/her run without being in violation of the provisions of the regulations in this part, if such run reasonably could have been completed absent the emergency.

[glasman2]

Let me understand this Rev.
If you are at an accident and held up for 2 hours, your driving time is extended for 2 hours if loged accident time?

Same goes for traffic stalls, or held up by snow ( meaning you have to wait for them to clear the road )

Does this also include time driving in the show ( slow speeds ) what you could have drove over in 20 minutes took an hour or 2.

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by glasman2

Let me understand this Rev.
If you are at an accident and held up for 2 hours, your driving time is extended for 2 hours if loged accident time?

Yes - as long as you were not involved in the accident, and the carrier was not aware of it prior to dispatch.

Same goes for traffic stalls, or held up by snow ( meaning you have to wait for them to clear the road )

Yes - as long as the carrier was not aware of the weather or traffic delay prior to dispatching you.

Does this also include time driving in the show ( slow speeds ) what you could have drove over in 20 minutes took an hour or 2.

Yes - as long as the carrier was not aware of it prior to dispatching you. For example, the storm that Denver recently had would PROBABLY not count for the adverse driving exemption, because it was made well known that the storm was coming PRIOR to it arriving. If a freak blizzard showed up, then the adverse driving exemption could be used.

One thing to note, however, is that the adverse driving provision WILL NOT extend the 14 hour clock, or the 70 hour clock. It will only extend the 11 hour clock, and only by as much as you WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DRIVE had the adverse condition not existed.