[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by Zandalli Moon

Holy crap you guys....I felt like I drove 11 hours straight just reading the posts! :lol:

What line did you log it on? :wink:

[greg3564]

Where's Dawn when you need her? :shock: :lol:

[madii'swife]

Originally Posted by greg3564

Where's Dawn when you need her? :shock: :lol:

In everybody's PM boxes!!

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by madii'swife

In everybody's PM boxes!!

You mean their EMAIL boxes. :wink:

[kreeper01]

With all these different senario's, someone please show me where you can remain "On duty" past 14 hours?

Yes, it does state that you cannot legally drive beyond 14 hours. It also does not state you have to immediately pull over for 10 either.

So Rev., you do have a valid point, however, it should state that when that truck is moving, you should log it on line 3. Therefore, if a D.O.T. officer or you get pulled into a weigh station, your log will be correct up to that point.

My point is this:

Those boneheads for the Department of Transportation should make things more clearly instead of having the same thing mentioned 6 different ways in about 4 sections in the green and white book.

Us drivers do get tired, there is no one here at Class A Drivers who can stay up 24 hours non stop for 3 straight days with no sleep.

I, for one, cannot stay up no more than the alotted time and drive 20 straight hours non stop per day, expect to get 4 hours sleep/rest and do another 20 hours. that is under the old rules and some people are irate with the new ones.

How many drivers here can continuously drive non stop without getting grogy or fall alseep at the wheel?

Basically, the rules boils down to driver's discretion, work 14 hours, take 10 hours off. I am not about to take on the Federal Govnerment without any backing. The Feds can make 1 persons life a living nightmare.

[golfhobo]

Kreeper:

The fmcsa website has been revised recently, and many of my links no longer work. I've also found that many sections have been edited, and much of the info has been left out. However, the following link is to the FINAL RULING under its current location. It is a very difficult document to read, but there is much info there.

At this link, under the Executive Summary, you will find the following "basis" for being on duty past the 14 hour "driving window."

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...le-8-25-05.htm

C. Executive Summary

Today's rule requires all drivers of property-carrying commercial
motor vehicles (CMVs) in interstate commerce to take at least 10
consecutive hours off duty before driving, limits driving time to 11
consecutive hours within a 14-hour, non-extendable window after coming
on duty, and prohibits driving after the driver has been on duty 60
hours in 7 consecutive days, or 70 hours in 8 consecutive days. Drivers
may restart the 60- or 70-hour ``clock'' by taking 34 consecutive hours
off duty.

The 14-hour driving window and the 10-hour off-duty requirement of
today's rule combine to move most drivers toward a 24-hour cycle, which
allows the body to operate in accord with its normal circadian rhythm
and the driver to sleep on the same schedule each day. A driver may
remain on duty after the 14-hour window closes or go off duty after the
11th hour of driving, in each case returning to work after 10 hours off
duty on something other than a 24-hour cycle. Nonetheless, FMCSA
believes that most drivers, most of the time, will go off duty at or
before the end of the 14th hour, since their principal responsibility--
driving--is illegal after that point.

Their INTENTION is to "move" us all towards a standard 24 hour day. But, they realize it will not always be practical. Therefore, their new rules are designed to ensure proper rest BEFORE returning to driving. That is why MOST of the rules/regs refer only to the 14 hour "duty cycle/window" and do not address line 4 activities AFTER that time. After studying ALL the regs AND the summaries AND this entire Final Ruling, I am 100% confident in my interpretation that one CAN be on line 4 past the 14 hour window... you just can't OPERATE the vehicle past 14 hours UNTIL you've gotten the required rest period. (caution: these line 4 hours will count against your 60/70 rule. But, as a matter of fact... you can exceed those limits as long as you are only on line 4. You just can't DRIVE if you've exceeded max weekly hours.)

If you need further assurance, go to their website and click on the logbook examples. You will see several "legal" scenarios of a driver on line 4 after the 14 hours as well as a few showing violations for returning to DRIVING without the proper break.

If you still have questions, I will be glad to answer them here or by PM.

The fmcsa rule "authors" have made a few mistakes concerning the use of the word "consecutive," so don't take that word too literally. As it pertains to split logging, it usually means "cumulative."

After only a cursory review of the new website, I am dismayed at the intentional removal of many questions, answers, and info concerning line 4 activities beyond the "duty window." They are seriously trying to make us conform to their "circadian rhythm" of a 24 hour day.... but they have NOT ruled out working past the 14 hour mark - as long as you're not driving.

I hope this helps.

For those of you wanting to know WHY the fmcsa has adopted these new sleeper/HOS rules.... that link will provide all the background info, research, objections by companies and organizations, etc. that you would NEVER want to have to wade through! Look for the sections under each topic that offer the FMCSA CONCLUSIONS.

Most of what we care about is contained (I believe - without looking again) in sections J-4, J-5 and J-6.

And, yes.... I've read EVERY word of this final ruling several times.

Trust me! :wink:


Edited twice to correct my mistake. I said line 3 several times when I meant line 4!!! I must have been driving too long! :lol: My apologies, if I confused anyone.

[kreeper01]

This is my exact point, under the current hours of service, 14 hours of total on duty, 11 hours driving and 10 hours of off duty or sleeper berth time. However, what you wrote is correct, yes the companies want us to work 18 to 20 hour days, 4 hours sleep/rest and drive another 20 hour days. Some company log departments may get the driver to sign a form stating they violated the 14 hour rule. Me personally, i log it 1 of 2 ways:

1) i log it legal, i.e. 14 total hours of on duty with a 10 hour break.

2) logging it as i do it, i.e. lines 3 and 4 non stop and flag it where i am at and at what time.

Originally Posted by golfhobo

At this link, under the Executive Summary, you will find the following "basis" for being on duty past the 14 hour "driving window."

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...le-8-25-05.htm

Their INTENTION is to "move" us all towards a standard 24 hour day. But, they realize it will not always be practical. Therefore, their new rules are designed to ensure proper rest BEFORE returning to driving. That is why MOST of the rules/regs refer only to the 14 hour "duty cycle/window" and do not address line 3 activities AFTER that time. After studying ALL the regs AND the summaries AND this entire Final Ruling, I am 100% confident in my interpretation that one CAN be on line 3 past the 14 hour window... you just can't OPERATE the vehicle past 14 hours UNTIL you've gotten the required rest period. (caution: these line 4 hours will count against your 60/70 rule. But, as a matter of fact... you can exceed those limits as long as you are only on line 4. You just can't DRIVE if you've exceeded max weekly hours.)

If you need further assurance, go to their website and click on the logbook examples. You will see several "legal" scenarios of a driver on line 4 after the 14 hours as well as a few showing violations for returning to DRIVING without the proper break.

If you still have questions, I will be glad to answer them here or by PM.

The fmcsa rule "authors" have made a few mistakes concerning the use of the word "consecutive," so don't take that word too literally. As it pertains to split logging, it usually means "cumulative."

After only a cursory review of the new website, I am dismayed at the intentional removal of many questions, answers, and info concerning line 4 activities beyond the "duty window." They are seriously trying to make us conform to their "circadian rhythm" of a 24 hour day.... but they have NOT ruled out working past the 14 hour mark - as long as you're not driving.

I hope this helps.

For those of you wanting to know WHY the fmcsa has adopted these new sleeper/HOS rules.... that link will provide all the background info, research, objections by companies and organizations, etc. that you would NEVER want to have to wade through! Look for the sections under each topic that offer the FMCSA CONCLUSIONS.

Most of what we care about is contained (I believe - without looking again) in sections J-4, J-5 and J-6.

And, yes.... I've read EVERY word of this final ruling several times.

Trust me! :wink:

[golfhobo]

Kreeper:

I don't understand where you get this statement:

This is my exact point, under the current hours of service, 14 hours of total on duty, 11 hours driving and 10 hours of off duty or sleeper berth time.

It certainly doesn't agree with anything I said in my well worded response. And it isn't found anywhere in the regs.

What part of "A driver may remain on duty after the 14-hour window closes" dont you understand?

Let me try again. You have a 14 hour window, within which you can drive only 11 hours. Then you MAY stay on duty on line 4 for as long as you wish. However, before returning to DRIVING, you must take 10 hours off.

Let's say within your 14 hour window you drive 11, take a 2 hour nap, fuel for 30 mins, and log 15 mins each for pre and post trips. You just used all 14 of your hours. When do you plan on unloading your truck? AFTER a 10 hour break? You won't be in trucking long. :lol:

[kreeper01]

Yes, under the "14 hour rule" you do have 11 hours to drive, minus that from 14 and you get 3 hours under the 14 for fueling, pre and post trips and loading and unloading.

I have logged all the above in 14 hours while running "regional".

BTW, you never specified "OTR, Regional, or Dedicated". That is where you, Golfhobo, made the mistake. "OTR", you are darn tooting i won't make it (not as a solo driver), Regional and Dedicated i will. OTR means all 48 states, not the states east of the mississippi river, Regional and Dedicated are within a few state area.

Originally Posted by golfhobo

What part of "A driver may remain on duty after the 14-hour window closes" dont you understand?

Let me try again. You have a 14 hour window, within which you can drive only 11 hours. Then you MAY stay on duty on line 4 for as long as you wish. However, before returning to DRIVING, you must take 10 hours off.

Let's say within your 14 hour window you drive 11, take a 2 hour nap, fuel for 30 mins, and log 15 mins each for pre and post trips. You just used all 14 of your hours. When do you plan on unloading your truck? AFTER a 10 hour break? You won't be in trucking long. :lol:

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by kreeper01

Yes, under the "14 hour rule" you do have 11 hours to drive, minus that from 14 and you get 3 hours under the 14 for fueling, pre and post trips and loading and unloading.

Nope. You get 11 hours to drive within the first 14 hours you are on duty after a 10 hour (or longer) break. You can be ON DUTY (not driving) after that 14th hour, but you cannot drive beyond the 14th hour.

Example: I come ON DUTY (driving) after a 34 hour reset at 8:00 AM. I drive until 7:00 PM, where I remain ON DUTY (not driving) for 8 hours unloading a trailer, and then take a 10 hour sleeper berth. Total time worked without a break - 19 hours. No violation, as I did not drive beyond the 14th hour.

Originally Posted by kreeper01

BTW, you never specified "OTR, Regional, or Dedicated". That is where you, Golfhobo, made the mistake. "OTR", you are darn tooting i won't make it (not as a solo driver), Regional and Dedicated i will. OTR means all 48 states, not the states east of the mississippi river, Regional and Dedicated are within a few state area.

Dedicated could be coast to coast. OTR means Over The Road, and applies to drivers who are usually out for more than a week at a time. I ran OTR for many years without running all 48 states. In fact, I finally hit my 48th state last year, after 10 years of driving. I would consider any driver who is using the 70 / 8 hour rule to be an OTR driver, as it means the carrier operates 7 days a week.