[lowrange]

So it seems. It wasn't necessarily rough to start with, but the truck does seem to be idling a little more smoothly.

I don't have any mpg numbers yet. I didn't notice anything based on the ECM figures but I don't consider them reliable anyway. Going back over my mpg numbers the last few months, there was a swing in mpg per tank of over 1 mpg, so it's not going to be really easy to tell. No, it didn't send the mpg through the roof, that's for sure. The device was probably worth it for any smoothing of the idle. I figure if I can get just a .2 mpg increase, it'll be well worth it.

I'm like a lot of you, it looks like a <$50 part that could have been installed in a half hour instead of the one that they charged me- $370 smackers all told. But, you can't go out and buy the competing brand, there isn't one. Disagree with Rutherford on things that are a matter of opinion, take note of the fact that he surely IS a businessman and that he wants to sell stuff, but I certainly don't think he's a cheat, I think he helps people and he likes helping people, and he watches his own number on his own trucks anally and he wouldn't have taken this sponsor if he hadn't seen an increase- and of course there is the testimony of others who say it works.

I hate aggressive marketing and on that account I'm no fan of the Turbo 3000. I think it is working, though, if only to give me a little more smooth idle.

Ok, who hates me now?

[Rev.Vassago]

Show me the science behind adding a hollow brass tube with crosshairs to a fuel system somehow magically increasing MPG or smooth idle. What you are experiencing is called the "placebo effect". The fact that you are watching your mpg with even more scrutiny will undoubtedly cause you to try to get better fuel mileage. You claimed there was nothing wrong with your idle prior to installing it. Therefore, are you now claiming that there is even more nothing wrong?

There are no independent scientific studies that prove the Turbo3000 does anything but lighten your pocketbook. Kevin Rutherford is not in the business of helping others. He is in business to make money (and from what I've heard, he isn't all that good at doing that on certain things too. After all, he has trucks leased to FedEx making a whopping $0.90 per mile.....)

When a manufacturer starts installing them at the factory, then I will become a believer. When some actual scientific data becomes available (anecdotal evidence is not scientific data), I will become a believer. Until then, it is nothing more than snake oil and wishful thinking.

[lowrange]

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

Show me the science behind adding a hollow brass tube with crosshairs to a fuel system somehow magically increasing MPG or smooth idle. What you are experiencing is called the "placebo effect". The fact that you are watching your mpg with even more scrutiny will undoubtedly cause you to try to get better fuel mileage. You claimed there was nothing wrong with your idle prior to installing it. Therefore, are you now claiming that there is even more nothing wrong?

There are no independent scientific studies that prove the Turbo3000 does anything but lighten your pocketbook. Kevin Rutherford is not in the business of helping others. He is in business to make money (and from what I've heard, he isn't all that good at doing that on certain things too. After all, he has trucks leased to FedEx making a whopping $0.90 per mile.....)

When a manufacturer starts installing them at the factory, then I will become a believer. When some actual scientific data becomes available (anecdotal evidence is not scientific data), I will become a believer. Until then, it is nothing more than snake oil and wishful thinking.

Ok, here we go. My answer is 'no', I'm not going to show you any scientific data, I don't have any and, quite frankly, increasing YOUR mpg doesn't put a dime in my pocket, now we does it?

He sold his Fed Ex contract and the way he used his website and radio program to do it, I expect he got all that it was worth. Be honest, though, Fed Ex is widely regarded as a pretty decent gig with the light freight and all.

It was Rutherford that told me to take these deep lug tires off my truck, no one else did. I haven't done it yet because of the changeover cost but I don't think I'll buy another set. I won't buy Bridgestones with their high rolling resistance either. No one told me this except Kevin. I've asked a couple mechanics about checking my charge air cooler system. Both of them basically painted scenarios such that if my CAC is leaking, they say I'll know it. That too is something on my to do list, finding a believer to test the system. Bypass filters and synthetic oil...you know, I haven't done most of what I've learned but like this Turbo 3000, when the time and the money and everything is right, I'm going to see just how much of my revenue I can divert from fuel purchase to income. About Kevin, running a profitable business that provides a good, useful service- there is nothing wrong with that.

I know what a placebo is, nothing groundbreaking there. That's why I say it "seems" my idle has smoothed out, I noticed it right away. Don't act like a fine running truck can't have an even smoother idle, either, the concepts aren't exclusive.

Now, the scientific data, that truly is a tough one. Since these things can be easily verified by an independent laboratory, why hasn't that happened? That is a good question. Why aren't others copying them too, since they've been around so long? I agree with you Rev, that makes one think it's just a sham. The only response I have is that all the evidence has to be considered together. Based almost entirely on the trust I've developed with Kevin listening to him, I was at a TA when the shop was empty and I had some extra cash and I thought, 'I'm going to do this thing.' Like I said, the jury is still out on the mpg, but I think I'll keep it if only for the "perceived" smoothing of the idle (it's not like I have a test for that)

[Rev.Vassago]

If you truly did have a rougher idle prior to installing it, then that would indicate another problem that needs to be addressed. I've never heard, however, of rough idle being caused by fuel, unless it was a contaminant in the fuel causing the rough idling. Since the Turbo3000 does nothing to fix contaminated fuel, I find it extremely hard to believe that it somehow "repaired" a rough idle. At best, it could have "masked" it.

If the makers of the Turbo3000 truly believed in their product, they would submit it for true independent scientific testing. They would also advertise how exactly this device saves fuel (as it would be a patented idea). Since nobody seems to know exactly what it does that causes this (alleged) fuel savings, that would be a strong indication that it is nothing more than snake oil. Even the places that sell it don't seem to know how it works. I've talked to different sales people at different shops, and have gotten answers all over the board as to how this device supposedly saves fuel. Their website states that the device "changes the travel action of the fuel". Uh huh. Since the fuel is turned into a mist when it hits the injectors, I fail to see the reason that "changing the travel action" of the fuel would cause a MPG increase. They also claim that the fuel burns cleaner. Since everything this device does would be negated by the injectors anyway, I once again fail to see how "changing the travel action" of the fuel causes it to burn differently than it otherwise would. They claim that it requires a "break in" period (which just so happens to be a bit longer than their money back guarantee period). Since the device is supposedly doing nothing but "changing the travel action" of the fuel, any fuel saving properties that it has would be noticeable instantly.

If you want to throw your money away on snake oil, be my guest. I'm sure the guys who sell the big green fuel pills would love to speak to you as well....

[lowrange]

Originally Posted by Rev.Vassago

If you truly did have a rougher idle prior to installing it, then that would indicate another problem that needs to be addressed. I've never heard, however, of rough idle being caused by fuel, unless it was a contaminant in the fuel causing the rough idling. Since the Turbo3000 does nothing to fix contaminated fuel, I find it extremely hard to believe that it somehow "repaired" a rough idle. At best, it could have "masked" it.

If the makers of the Turbo3000 truly believed in their product, they would submit it for true independent scientific testing. They would also advertise how exactly this device saves fuel (as it would be a patented idea). Since nobody seems to know exactly what it does that causes this (alleged) fuel savings, that would be a strong indication that it is nothing more than snake oil. Even the places that sell it don't seem to know how it works. I've talked to different sales people at different shops, and have gotten answers all over the board as to how this device supposedly saves fuel. Their website states that the device "changes the travel action of the fuel". Uh huh. Since the fuel is turned into a mist when it hits the injectors, I fail to see the reason that "changing the travel action" of the fuel would cause a MPG increase. They also claim that the fuel burns cleaner. Since everything this device does would be negated by the injectors anyway, I once again fail to see how "changing the travel action" of the fuel causes it to burn differently than it otherwise would. They claim that it requires a "break in" period (which just so happens to be a bit longer than their money back guarantee period). Since the device is supposedly doing nothing but "changing the travel action" of the fuel, any fuel saving properties that it has would be noticeable instantly.

If you want to throw your money away on snake oil, be my guest. I'm sure the guys who sell the big green fuel pills would love to speak to you as well....

The explanation I heard that sounds most plausible is, the device causes the fuel to flow better down the manifold or fuel rail or whatever you call it so that there is a more even distribution of the fuel going to the injectors. If that's possible, that would explain both the smoother idle and any increased fuel economy. Now, I really know nothing of the mechanics and that's just a story, but until I learn something else how do I know it's not true?

Two things, one, Kevin's motives and two, the testimonies of people who KNOW THEIR NUMBERS and have tried it. You seem to have an easy time thinking Rutherford is a shameless swindler, I have a different take. Anyone else who has actually tried it and knows his numbers can chime in here too. I'm not encouraging anyone else to get one, particularly since I haven't got a month or two of fuel receipts to compare to. I'm just saying, contrary to what one might think and contrary to the overall opinions of the guys on the board, I decided to give it a try. Kevin is one smart businessman building an empire in everything from financial services to radio, trucking, seminars and consulting, but I think he knows what he's talking about and he doesn't want 'stolen' money.

[allan5oh]

I don't think he did end up selling his contract, unless he tried again recently.

He is/was making well over 100k on those 3 trucks, net profit. His numbers are on the cdlofit website.

Rev is right about the testing, SAE or TMC would add a lot of credibility to his claims. FWIW, in the cummins "fuel mileage secrets" paper, they talk about "adding fuel restriction devices" and how they do not work.

[Rev.Vassago]

Originally Posted by lowrange

The explanation I heard that sounds most plausible is, the device causes the fuel to flow better down the manifold or fuel rail or whatever you call it so that there is a more even distribution of the fuel going to the injectors. If that's possible, that would explain both the smoother idle and any increased fuel economy.

If the engine isn't providing "even distribution" of fuel, then there is clearly a mechanical problem with the injector system. In fact, the system is designed to provide more fuel than is needed, hence the fact that there is a return line bringing unused fuel back to the tanks. The fuel does not need to spin a certain way in the fuel lines before it gets to the injectors. It is junk science, plain and simple.

Two things, one, Kevin's motives and two, the testimonies of people who KNOW THEIR NUMBERS and have tried it. You seem to have an easy time thinking Rutherford is a shameless swindler, I have a different take. Anyone else who has actually tried it and knows his numbers can chime in here too. I'm not encouraging anyone else to get one, particularly since I haven't got a month or two of fuel receipts to compare to. I'm just saying, contrary to what one might think and contrary to the overall opinions of the guys on the board, I decided to give it a try. Kevin is one smart businessman building an empire in everything from financial services to radio, trucking, seminars and consulting, but I think he knows what he's talking about and he doesn't want 'stolen' money.

Kevin sold off his accounting firm, and now is a paid shill for the company that bought it. He repeatedly ignores all the complaints of those who were swindled into using ATBS by him, as well as those who were swindled into purchasing TURBO 3000's by him. He sold off most of his trucking business as well when it became unprofitable for him to keep it. The guy is a charlatan. He only promotes products he is paid to promote.

[BigDiesel]

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Rutherford got another one to buy into his bullshit....... :thumbsup:

PT Barnum is again proven correct !!!!!:rofl:

[lowrange]

Originally Posted by BigDiesel

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Rutherford got another one to buy into his bullshit....... :thumbsup:

PT Barnum is again proven correct !!!!!:rofl:

Well, it was a point for point, substantive debate.

I understand how it is, though. Some people feel so insignificant they just get giddy whenever they have an opportunity to feel superior to anyone else. Big Diesel, did I ever take the time to congratulate you for the way you handled and drove off that 18 year old high school student Double L? Dude, you are so superior. :thumbsup:

[scooter777]

Originally Posted by BigDiesel

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Rutherford got another one to buy into his bullshit....... :thumbsup:

PT Barnum is again proven correct !!!!!:rofl:

So very true!!!!!!!!!!!!!